From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bash scripts in black and white Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 10:51:18 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4BEBC372.5010402@alice.it> <4BEDBF5C.1040306@alice.it> <838w7lfzdo.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1273917138 28120 80.91.229.12 (15 May 2010 09:52:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:52:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Angelo Graziosi To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 15 11:52:17 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ODE2Z-0002ED-F8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 May 2010 11:52:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56311 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ODE2Y-0005L7-Gk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 May 2010 05:52:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41921 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ODE1k-000554-II for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 May 2010 05:51:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ODE1i-00018K-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 May 2010 05:51:24 -0400 Original-Received: from ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.132]:49997) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ODE1i-000188-92; Sat, 15 May 2010 05:51:22 -0400 X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-SpamDetails: not scanned X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Original-Received: from smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk ([193.60.95.72]:55183) by ppsw-32.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.158]:587) with esmtpsa (LOGIN:sl392) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) id 1ODE1f-0003kc-B7 (Exim 4.70) (return-path ); Sat, 15 May 2010 10:51:19 +0100 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:124794 Archived-At: On 2010-05-15 07:33 +0100, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> PS. Sometime one gets the idea that Emacs's developers do not test >> deeply (for example, with at least a clean bootstrap) their changes... >> This would explain why the bugs tracker is at #6193 :-) > > I won't recommend drawing any conclusions from just the number of the > last filed bug. Especially since the Emacs bug database is shared > with other projects (e.g., Coreutils). As another data point, the GNU > Make's bug number approaches 30,000... > > More to the point: Emacs maintainers do test as deeply as practically > possible for each one of them. A bootstrap is a lengthy procedure for > someone who has maybe an hour a day to work on Emacs. We are grateful > to all those who do have resources to bootstrap and test on other > systems, and report results here. I think users have much higher expectation of software quality these days since there are far more good applications both commercial and free. And frankly emacs is playing catch-up. The good quality part is from decades of bug reports and fixes. Most recent additions are not due to lack of exposure and due to lack of people care enough to report and lack of people care enough to fix. What I know as truth is emacs may hang more often than any applications on your system including the webbrowser, which handles contents far more complex and it is making emacs 'irrelevant' as time goes by. Let me cite one example here http://code.google.com/p/latex-lab/. I also think it would be very helpful for emacs to have a daily build report on one of the main platforms. This will help developers use their time more effectively. To the outside, any breakage will last not more than one day. Such routine can be automated. I have seen it done by individual user and I have no doubt it can be done in the GNU project. Leo