From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: eval-after-load not harmful after all Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:43:40 +0100 Message-ID: References: <7b501d5c0908091634ndfba631vd9db6502db301097@mail.gmail.com> <998B83F771474211A37D1E2B6A497B61@us.oracle.com> <878whr9o4c.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <0AE832B5AEFE4453BB3E46F20DA29DE8@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1250459042 10265 80.91.229.12 (16 Aug 2009 21:44:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:44:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Daniel Colascione' , 'Carsten Dominik' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'CHENG Gao' , "'Stephen J. Turnbull'" , Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 16 23:43:54 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1McnW6-0007mQ-EF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:43:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34357 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1McnW5-0006EG-Og for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:43:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1McnW1-0006CS-FH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:43:49 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1McnVw-00067Y-Te for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:43:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34777 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1McnVw-00067S-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:43:44 -0400 Original-Received: from ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.131]:56056) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1McnVw-0004v0-AI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:43:44 -0400 X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-SpamDetails: not scanned X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Original-Received: from smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk ([193.60.95.72]:40295) by ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.151]:587) with esmtpsa (LOGIN:sl392) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) id 1McnVt-0001E4-44 (Exim 4.70) (return-path ); Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:43:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:32 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:114327 Archived-At: On 2009-08-11 16:08 +0100, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I note that all the advocates of e-a-l are package maintainers and UI >>> types; all the deprecators are core. This is an inherent tension, and >>> I think it should be resolved in favor of protecting the core. > > Actually, I think "tension" is the wrong word. The core just want to > send a message, nothing more. The main message is "eval-after-load and > advice should ideally not be necessary: we happily support them and > won't be offended at all if you use them, but if you do need them, > please understand that it is evidence of a shortcoming in some package > that should be reported so we can fix it". Emacs -Q already has a non-nil after-load-alist value. I think this is a really bad example. Is there any way to cleanly unload an eval-after-load form? For example, if a package eval-after-load something that interferes with a user's personal setting, what to do? -- Leo's Emacs uptime: 12 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes, 19 seconds