From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michal Nazarewicz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 18:00:59 +0100 Organization: http://mina86.com/ Message-ID: References: <52FD9F1D.50205@yandex.ru> <83mwhucg1h.fsf@gnu.org> <878ute589i.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83d2iqc84m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wqgxkcr9.fsf@yandex.ru> <834n41db0d.fsf@gnu.org> <52FE2985.4070703@yandex.ru> <831tz5daes.fsf@gnu.org> <8738jlohd6.fsf@yandex.ru> <83txc1bl83.fsf@gnu.org> <5300189A.9090208@yandex.ru> <83wqgv9fbj.fsf@gnu.org> <20140216180712.236069f6@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <83sirj9cyp.fsf@gnu.org> <20140217203145.71a849f7@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <837g8t8ouc.fsf@gnu.org> <20140219080524.25689b6b@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <87fvnfqyfv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1396026074 5655 80.91.229.3 (28 Mar 2014 17:01:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 17:01:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup , Stephen J. Turnbull , rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 28 18:01:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WTa9i-0002Fe-A9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 18:01:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35043 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WTa9h-0001QT-VS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:01:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59374) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WTa9a-0001P8-GL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:01:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WTa9U-0001Su-6Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:01:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ee0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:4013:c00::236]:41717) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WTa9T-0001ST-Rb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 13:01:08 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ee0-f54.google.com with SMTP id d49so4291734eek.41 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:01:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:organization:references :user-agent:face:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=bgrOtu7GS+s6VVHSy8ME7G4l9PBEI06C4ZqdLPvgGW8=; b=TrRQ2gCifhMZL0l9PXRGRV5uIMbVvhBBDPc3MkMwrnXnnGCVU+a0YKtoqXxi8A+RWa 6QXmuLpI/Gkn1JF7qrlStLsSacuaxAYYXiRbzqyNoT3FSCJJdByoM+IuaCBR25lLc/ta RJ2hypNrv3uG3ahXDLy9TRt+jSBOsxapA6fDkWwIiY3ERQZq0K8Xd1dIXAA17DUDYb2r P7bS56XjAKOsBUM1uRM4i9BJfyi7xIFdBT35hV4Pd8oueSSZsNjtd4nNGvTdM9isYNX/ jg3SiuhSBpUR9fnl+5E7wIw6RqOd4UYvuXnfDovM3UwpwOyTvES3oL5NWKYrz1EvZADc gHDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :organization:references:user-agent:face:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; bh=bgrOtu7GS+s6VVHSy8ME7G4l9PBEI06C4ZqdLPvgGW8=; b=VxXDuATHIcF7tltrcJ36ZQoC6vNHm3XaN6KA/44C71ixydQCItjIKgP/1K/VOWJIA3 pzOhQ724GlCQmImdF/c4lkjuiCYVir1XNkN38lJxAchYdrYcdYjq2zgMWOAeYyen1Jo2 Ua0FgeSQHCaG+GhIySDwPEIOb5XsCzsZ01MHpLW05NnaeIAJg7crRvEmIODhHV9I2U2P cQB7p6nC4ojEyFO1i3pPYFTnyzmbo9jKhbCH3HPRbVpPbefGHhBKw+Jw6dV3n1cf1CqF B+8VVJ+PyNTBnH6izuTzdsI4BRlzagg8SvEio4hRgCXrgm26oy70Rpzqb800glkWPIpQ Jg8w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn6mVVGGePCcZVOhjAugDhVspCMAU8tlSWiGQ4YcMk9ff0A7EBfvvwPaxz3oRq1IsB2SUfEAtOpARGPP+pZS0HQqNtgxVff5mJJNSyIoVweG6w0HT0eclMiqUca/GW6JJwj5kkn0HlH8UeNi4SZIowGL3SmUCvGKK3lpHcuSSOOMMe+YQctyEuPsJ9it+B8u7h+Dr93AXxB4iSXgizQEYYIPBHF4Q== X-Received: by 10.14.225.73 with SMTP id y49mr10566707eep.43.1396026066582; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from mpn-glaptop.roam.corp.google.com ([2620:0:105f:301:ddd6:a99c:2688:9821]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 44sm12772406eek.30.2014.03.28.10.01.04 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Mar 2014 10:01:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.17+15~gb65ca8e (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.3.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) X-Face: PbkBB1w#)bOqd`iCe"Ds{e+!C7`pkC9a|f)Qo^BMQvy\q5x3?vDQJeN(DS?|-^$uMti[3D*#^_Ts"pU$jBQLq~Ud6iNwAw_r_o_4]|JO?]}P_}Nc&"p#D(ZgUb4uCNPe7~a[DbPG0T~!&c.y$Ur,=N4RT>]dNpd; KFrfMCylc}gc??'U2j,!8%xdD Face: 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 4iw5vJaw2nzSjfq2zffcE/GDjRC2dn0J0XwPAbDL84TvaFCJEU4Oml9pRyEUhR3Cl2t01AoEjRbs0sYugp14/4X5n4pU4EHHnMAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-PGP: 50751FF4 X-PGP-FP: AC1F 5F5C D418 88F8 CC84 5858 2060 4012 5075 1FF4 X-Hashcash: 1:20:140328:dak@gnu.org::zK7CyQZzGOAhrJsn:000000719o X-Hashcash: 1:20:140328:emacs-devel@gnu.org::9EXyZhwVFwpFLhtp:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000006s2d X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4013:c00::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:171081 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Wed, Feb 19 2014, David Kastrup wrote: >> With regard to copyright assignments, you pretend that it is some magic >> ritual of initiation. There is nobody who'd be more glad than the FSF >> if this kind of paperwork was without merit and unneeded. On Thu, Mar 27 2014, Michal Nazarewicz wrote: > There are people who would argue that this kind of paperwork is in fact > unneeded. I admit it has merit, and I understand why lawyers want it, > but it's not at all clear that it is worth creating this burden. All right, let me take a step back because it seems my argument was worded too strongly and spawn a discussion that I did not intend. What I'm trying to say is that copyright assignment *is* a red tape. It *does* prevent patches from going into Emacs. One can put fingers in their ears and claim this in not the case but such behaviour would be hurtful to Emacs. The other option is to admit the issue, but say GNU project chosen to go with CAs anyway, and stop the discussion here. This is better, but I don't think the discussion needs to stop there. So here are some ideas that would reduce the cost of a first patch: - Allow the first 100 patches without a CA. - Allow electronically-signed CA. - Allow electronically-signed CA for the first 100 patches, and then require dead-tree CA. - Allow multi-project CAs (perhaps a form with a list of check-boxes). A lawyer will tell you[1] that it increases risk and may make enforcement harder, but your job is not to do whatever lawyers tell you, but weight the risks against benefits, and I *strongly* believe that in the case of Emacs benefits of allowing the first 100 patches w/o a CA *greatly* exceed risks. [1] By =E2=80=9Cyou=E2=80=9D I mean whoever would be in position to make a = decision to change the CA process, which most likely means Richard. --=20 Best regards, _ _ .o. | Liege of Serenely Enlightened Majesty of o' \,=3D./ `o ..o | Computer Science, Micha=C5=82 =E2=80=9Cmina86=E2=80=9D Nazarewicz = (o o) ooo +------ooO--(_)--Ooo-- --=-=-= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --==-=-= Content-Type: text/plain --==-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJTNarLAAoJECBgQBJQdR/0x64P/3tDlos4zWbTaLJKrY+IcnvU ucJe4ov/1un4lCN8ET/5US0AufViMuet2m42XLM2S7dwW/CKz9DvFgslLHw3iIuS +HRYJuqaAK0eJKphZvpKdnscMxqEF74QfHHD9yopyJsgZjcAdhmY69SH7L+ZLiOA oVixw9AnVWcF1/qCcNpFrFnG6tTkkZCM4xuTsfSB5hyU+LqhcEzaiDVQh2QlAsh8 qj8wU3VgiAr7vXQezpWAgeCUVwEuIf1dTvsUsfHB/AcM2m7uKB6DIxLGRuQMNFdT AvndpOSbYiBECXHBdeYZAqflKldkago9/jsAwtVaF3P8dU5JFXhQD4DGYGPgCBNG GzLJ6gQPxS4d7Y+Rs3C+8y8qJWGbExuWmcR/YzFTcRRJ+NBqEV9XZCtmVpg4VL5C dCyNazIjM02mEtqJdvlnAYIyocIc+3Gbg341GETAZKAqn5yASHDV6o0fbcwH/VOG R2fCVobiW3xjLs0bd1VUimpNsGJA/vOFhrpxdnEt7/TQe2Sf38SPFwDgWv+SbU0q r0w7BA/bMGLPg6LoPlBwiS4wXGRuR12LGTYm5+z3XrDb3IZ/ZPNYrepGoanxxzhG ZFD/SPpoVUb9Iy4A34xT6BInA1XuZZ9Jam/4xq/D9VWrJvKU7lc/oloB2jP+fwxz hQnM1QanopAshNfVaXTa =6mNY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==-=-=-- --=-=-=--