From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's the problem? (Was: Are there plans for a multi-threaded Emacs?) Date: 09 Dec 2003 23:02:29 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20031117040607.C6C5D79B72@server2.messagingengine.com> <87ekvpx18d.fsf@emptyhost.emptydomain.de> <4nad6cikxy.fsf@holmes.bwh.harvard.edu> <4nllpt3hr3.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu> <5bad69zd43.fsf@lister.roxen.com> <4noeuon378.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu> <4ny8tsgxy6.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu> <4nhe0ggv0u.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu> <4nk75bwjaf.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu> <4nsmjv8d32.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu> <4nu14b6q33.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard. NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1071007671 30415 80.91.224.253 (9 Dec 2003 22:07:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:07:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 09 23:07:47 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ATq1D-0003Zw-00 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 23:07:47 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ATq1D-0001Hg-00 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 23:07:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ATqxB-0006yO-CM for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:07:41 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ATquA-00065h-C6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:04:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ATqtc-0005tz-IC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:04:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [217.80.157.154] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1ATqtZ-0005tJ-HR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:03:57 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB9M2UDn003844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:02:30 +0100 Original-Received: (from dak@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB9M2T1h003840; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:02:29 +0100 Original-To: Ted Zlatanov In-Reply-To: <4nvfop6bay.fsf@collins.bwh.harvard.edu> Original-Lines: 22 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18585 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18585 Ted Zlatanov writes: > On 08 Dec 2003, dak@gnu.org wrote: > > > If you want to afford a separate binding stack for every thread, > > this also means that every _read_ _access_ to a symbol must run > > via the thread's binding stack instead of just using the stack > > whenever the a binding _changes_. > > So you're saying that it will slow down Emacs by using memory and > CPU, to manage the thread-local binding stack, correct? I agree. Do you have an idea what figure we are speaking about here? I repeat: _every_ access to a symbol that now works directly instead has to work via stack pointers. And CPUs like the x86 do not have spare address registers flying around. We are quite probably talking about a _significant_ slowdown of the Lisp machine here. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum