From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: English usage bug in bytecomp.el Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:24:14 +0100 Message-ID: References: <16941.26379.290951.460068@farnswood.snap.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1110278078 17560 80.91.229.2 (8 Mar 2005 10:34:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 10:34:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: miles@gnu.org, Alan Mackenzie , snogglethorpe@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 08 11:34:37 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D8c2f-00014C-2o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:34:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D8cH7-0006t3-2P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 05:49:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D8cC9-0005MH-8x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 05:44:10 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D8cC6-0005LC-VG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 05:44:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D8cC4-0005HQ-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 05:44:05 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D8bst-00051A-Cd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 05:24:15 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D8bss-0004ZD-0W; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 05:24:14 -0500 Original-To: Nick Roberts In-Reply-To: <16941.26379.290951.460068@farnswood.snap.net.nz> (Nick Roberts's message of "Tue, 8 Mar 2005 21:49:15 +1300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:34319 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:34319 Nick Roberts writes: > > [Discussion of "`foo' is an obsolete function since 21.4;"] > > > > >> . This combination of "is" and "since" is incorrect English usage. > > > > >I think "is ... since" is pretty common usage actually, and certainly > > >makes sense. > > > > > > > > Yes, it does make sense and it is regrettably common usage, but it is > > WRONG. It is something that a native English speaker would never say. > > In this case, it is just as easy to be correct. > > I don't know if it's correct or not but I think it is effective use of > English. "efficient" you mean probably . Let us just replace every "is not" and "was not" and "has not" with "ain't". That is also efficient. > I think its important to remember that English may not be the first > language for many Emacs users. "`foo' is an obsolete function since > 21.4" is concise: it tells the user that foo *is* obsolete and then > that it became obsolete in version 21.4. He doesn't have to > understand the many forms of past tense that English can have. We are not talking about whether it is impossible to make sense out of what is written. But I don't see how the non-first language speaker actively gains anything if we switch to a bastardized version of English. We don't require the readers of the manual to write correct English themselves, we just strive to be understandable even for non-native speakers. But I don't see that the correct English usage here would have any detrimental effects. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum