From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Customize buttons that change user'scustomfileshouldaskforconfirmation Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:25:32 +0100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1108061020 5102 80.91.229.2 (10 Feb 2005 18:43:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:43:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 10 19:43:40 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CzJHm-0000TO-7S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:43:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CzJWY-0006q2-OK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:58:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CzJVQ-0006JO-06 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:57:36 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CzJVN-0006Hq-PK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:57:34 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CzJVN-0006Hn-Lj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:57:33 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CzJ0P-0004oz-OI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:25:33 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CzIwo-0001Yb-LJ; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:21:51 -0500 Original-To: bob@rattlesnake.com In-Reply-To: (Robert J. Chassell's message of "Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:25:52 +0000 (UTC)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33198 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33198 "Robert J. Chassell" writes: > Customize is a can of worms. But the worms can improve the garden > if handled rightly! > > As others feared years ago, I now fear that some will come to depend > on their .emacs file being written automatically by Customize. So what? > They will lose or not gain an understanding of the technology. So what? > This applies especially to people who are not programmers and who do > not wish to become programmers. I don't see why I should disregard their wishes. > Customize should always show what it is automatically writing, just > as menu items always show key strokes, so anyone can become more > expert and more efficient if he or she wants. I disagree very strongly. Customize is more complicated than just a few setq-default (we have setter functions and stuff), and so all you can say is what custom-set-variable action is being taken. And anybody who wants or needs to know this for editing a .emacs file can look right into the .emacs file. > This does not force anyone to learn anything, but it makes that > learning easy. It is distracting for no good reason. I think this as misguided as the wish of a mechanic that no dashboard should conceil the electronics of a car. The whole point of the dashboard is making it possible to focus on what you need for your daily tasks. The purpose of Customize is to channel the operations of the user into a controlled subset that works. It is a bad idea to suggest to the user that he is gaining anything by tampering around himself: missing or too many parens, additional or missing quoting and so on can render a .emacs file completely inoperative. The whole story is there in the Emcas Lisp manual if you desire it. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum