From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default Emacs keybindings (was: Re: Menu suggestion) Date: 27 Apr 2004 11:54:51 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <408CF39D.2000201@math.ku.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1083059855 21916 80.91.224.253 (27 Apr 2004 09:57:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:57:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Lars Hansen , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 27 11:57:22 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIPL8-0007fv-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:57:22 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BIPL8-0003CW-00 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:57:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BIPL4-0005bS-Lw for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:57:18 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BIPKQ-0005QZ-9z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:56:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BIPJr-0004uY-5e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:56:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BIPIp-0004Ek-Nz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:54:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BIPGk-0002Y8-9b; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:52:50 -0400 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 35 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22226 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22226 Richard Stallman writes: > Emacs is primarily for superusers. In my vision of the GNU system, > we should change GNOME so that it presents Emacs as the editor, My GNOME uses Emacs as an Editor (actually, mostly emacsclient): that's easily configurable. > and GNOME programs should offer Emacs key bindings wherever they > could be used. Basic Emacs keybindings are pretty prevalent. But I would like to stress a point you make: "Emacs is primarily for superusers". A superuser will always be required to learn the editors he has to maintain, support and explain for the users of the systems he is a superuser of. As long as the superuser can't with a good conscience throw Emacs at his users, he is not free to use the editor he prefers. If somebody asks me about a text manipulation problem, and I tell him "just use this one-liner in Emacs" and he says "Forget it. I don't have a week to spare. How do I do this in KEdit?", this ultimately forces me to acquire skills with inferior tools in order to kludge along. And there are quite a few things that can only reasonably be done with Emacs. So I have a vested interest in moving Emacs to a state where one can throw it at a newbie without preconfiguration and can hope for a tolerable balance of achieved tasks and incited frustration even on early parts of the learning curve. The question "is it really worth it?" should, if possible, not come up again and again. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum