From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:18:46 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1098717590 7168 80.91.229.6 (25 Oct 2004 15:19:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:19:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 25 17:19:31 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CM6d8-0006Kx-00 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:19:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CM6kn-0002yv-1s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:27:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CM6kf-0002yh-OT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:27:17 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CM6kf-0002yK-2k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:27:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CM6ke-0002yH-VC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:27:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CM6cw-00039E-96 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:19:18 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CM6c3-0000VB-AY; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:18:53 -0400 Original-To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:08:42 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28924 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28924 Stefan Monnier writes: >>> (while left-clicking only moves point) >> In tex-fold.el left-clicking currently will reveal the folded text. > > So it's not the same problem as with preview-latex. The problem with > preview-latex is that the mouse-1 click seems to be the only easy way to > place the cursor on the image without "unfolding" it. > > tex-fold.el is more traditional in this respect and Kims' patch is > just annoying (you have to use the keyboard to move point into the > area), whereas for preview-latex using the keyboard is not really an > option it seems. preview-latex is a bit difficile: you can use the keyboard for moving onto the preview itself, _except_ for cursor left/right: that will trigger the autoreveal. Similarly, using isearch will trigger it. Basically there are movements where the guessed intent would be "uncover", and others where it isn't. The proposal of Kim (click to the side, then move to it) falls in the "isn't" category usually. When marking formulas and stuff, you usually will tend to use vertical motion commands if you are just using the keyboard, and those won't uncover things. It is, of course, an illogical interface to start with, but it happens to be convenient for normal usage patterns. And I don't like the "don't click on it if you just want to position the cursor" idea. If the time stamps for the clicks indeed come from the X server, then Kim's timed scheme would probably not be very susceptible to system load/traffic congestion effects. After all, we have the same problem with recognizing double-clicks. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum