From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: `xterm-mouse-mode' has a bogus Custom group Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:30:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <200504020351.j323ppS16391@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16974.11752.332998.125628@farnswood.snap.net.nz> <200504021346.j32Dk3e19471@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16978.12100.857894.861739@farnswood.snap.net.nz> <200504060000.j3600bm15264@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1112866501 32042 80.91.229.2 (7 Apr 2005 09:35:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:35:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: nickrob@snap.net.nz, teirllm@dms.auburn.edu, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 07 11:34:58 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJTPG-0006eR-9i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:34:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJSyX-0002Pf-8z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:06:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DJSxF-00026Z-QX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:05:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJSxF-00023S-DN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:05:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DJTME-000256-Hw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:31:26 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DJTLE-00041z-Qi; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 05:30:25 -0400 Original-To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) In-Reply-To: (Kim F. Storm's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:44:19 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:35686 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:35686 storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > David Kastrup writes: > >> Richard Stallman writes: >> >>> The console clearly is exclusively a feature of the kernel. >>> >>> The console is implemented by the kernel, but you use it to log in >>> to the whole system. >> >> There are embedded Linux systems that are most definitely not GNU, and >> for example the system at >> runs Linux, but not the GNU system. > > Does Emacs run on those systems? Last time I looked, Emacs was not dependent on glibc and the GNU utilities. So there would be no reason for it not to run on such a system. > The "Linux kernel console" -- as the user sees it on a GNU/Linux > system-- is typically just a process started by the kernel which > runs "/bin/sh". Nonsense. The console is the device, like an X terminal is the device on which an X session runs. > So when the user interacts with the console, he is interacting with > GNU software (e.g. bash), Or zsh, or ash, or ksh and a number of other possibilities that have nothing to do with GNU. > not the kernel. Either we consider the user a babbling idiot that would not be able to differentiate between GNU and Linux even if he tried, in which case all the fuss about educating people is at best hypocritical, since we are then just pleading for our own share of misinformation, or not. And the whole idea about telling people about GNU/Linux is about educating, not misleading them in our favorite direction. We really undermine our credibility if we do exactly the same kind of credit-mongering that we accuse others of. Our case is hard enough to make without dirty hands. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum