From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:09:31 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1098396604 32029 80.91.229.6 (21 Oct 2004 22:10:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:10:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Richard Stallman , Drew Adams , "Kim F. Storm" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 22 00:09:58 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CKl89-0005Bq-00 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:09:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKlFc-0007i4-7n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:17:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CKlFS-0007dd-Ro for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:17:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CKlFS-0007dA-7K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:17:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKlFS-0007cr-52 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:17:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKl7t-0000En-6K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:09:41 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CKl7l-0002Mq-Dh; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:09:33 -0400 Original-To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:45:28 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28713 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28713 Stefan Monnier writes: >> What about using keyboard modifiers with mouse-1 on an active area (link, >> button) to do what mouse-1 would normally do on an inactive area (e.g. >> mouse-drag-region)? > >> The following are not defined by default, at least in most Emacs modes: >> C-M-mouse-1, C-S-mouse-1, M-S-mouse-1. > > I think the effort required to remember such bindings, coupled with the fact > that they'd only be used on relatively rare occasions, makes me think it's > a bad idea. > Especially since in all likely hood, after setting point in the middle of > a button, you're going to do something with the keyboard rather than with > the mouse, which makes me think that using the keyboard to move to that spot > would work just as well. Ah, but if you use cursor-left or cursor-right to move onto a preview, the preview opens up into normal text (some sort of special auto-reveal action). So in the particular case of preview-latex, it is not an alternative to click just before or after a preview and then move onto it using forward-char or backward-char. I am not claiming that this is the ultimate reason or whatever, I am just pointing out that in this case it would be problematic. In addition, we have to be aware that clickable fields are usually implemented with keymaps. And that means that there is no way to magically change all buttons in all applications: it is a convention rather than an API. If we want to change to a different convention, we first need to define an API where the current convention is accessible to outside packages, then wait for a few releases with the old convention in place, and then try changing the default and weather the inconsistency storm from packages that have not yet adhered to the API telling it what mouse buttons to use. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum