From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Ok, here is the bug I have been looking for. Kim, not Jan... Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:01:26 +0100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1109764225 12886 80.91.229.2 (2 Mar 2005 11:50:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:50:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Kim F. Storm" , emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 02 12:50:24 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D6SMs-0000RA-Ki for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:50:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D6Sfc-000085-R3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 07:09:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D6Rt9-0004ns-8q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 06:19:35 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D6Rt4-0004me-Vm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 06:19:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D6Rt4-0004lM-Nd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 06:19:30 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D6Rbb-0002Iy-Rh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 06:01:27 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D6Rbb-0003wY-8Q; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 06:01:27 -0500 Original-To: snogglethorpe@gmail.com In-Reply-To: (Miles Bader's message of "Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:28:37 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:34052 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:34052 Miles Bader writes: > On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:52:13 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: >> I find it highly embarrassing that I have to tell people that want >> to test drive Emacs without becoming a debugger-savvy developer > > Why do you find it "embarrassing"? Because there is no other usable Emacs to be had? > Is it surprising to these people that a develop tree is optimized > for ... development? It isn't. This "optimization" has wasted a week for me already, by triggering non-bugs that were slated to be fixed anyway. Just because I point out that the external damage we are doing with this kind of thing is acutely embarrassing and unnecessary does not mean that it not also impedes development internally. > It is certainly possible for Richard to decide that the default > state of the CVS trunk should be optimized for random users who want > to check out Emacs, and not for people interested in helping find > bugs. You conveniently ignore that I already explained several times that this setting in the current situation is actively _preventing_ fixing the kind of "bugs" that get triggered by it. Just that I also point out that shooting others in the foot is not going to make us popular does not mean that I consider shooting ourselves in the foot a great pastime. > But I think it should an explicit decision to that effect. I was of the opinion I was arguing just for that. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum