From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Permission to use portions of the recent GNU Emacs Manual Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:40:10 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87k6rollef.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <87d5xf63ss.fsf@sno.mundell.ukfsn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1102859021 29178 80.91.229.6 (12 Dec 2004 13:43:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:43:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Richard Stallman Original-X-From: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Sun Dec 12 14:43:35 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([199.184.165.135] ident=ident-user) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CdU0d-0004XW-00 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:43:35 +0100 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBCDeMXB013470; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:40:23 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBCDeKc8013458 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:40:20 -0500 Original-Received: (from xemacweb@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBCDeKap013456 for xemacs-beta-mailman@xemacs.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:40:20 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBCDeJo4013442 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:40:19 -0500 Original-Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBCDeJOY013441 for xemacweb@tux.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:40:19 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [199.232.76.164]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBCDeJED013436 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:40:19 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CdTtW-0006Hf-8P; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:36:14 -0500 Original-To: Matthew Mundell In-Reply-To: <87d5xf63ss.fsf@sno.mundell.ukfsn.org> (Matthew Mundell's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:31:47 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-XEmacs-List: beta X-BeenThere: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: XEmacs Beta Testers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Errors-To: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:17417 gmane.emacs.devel:31030 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31030 Matthew Mundell writes: > Stefan Monnier writes: > >> But I think that this "freedom" argument is flawed. "Freedom" >> means something different to everyone, so it's not a very good way >> to convince other people. Especially in the context of the Free >> Software movement, I understand "free" to apply to the program >> itself, not its user: the program (or the doc) itself is "free", >> can't be harnessed/hijacked by anyone. It quite directly implies >> that people aren't "free" to use it as they please. > > That sounds more like the program is being protected than freed. Certainly. This protection is the whole point of copyleft licences as compared to licences like the MIT X11 licence or placing something in the public domain. This is not an issue: the various GNU licences never were aiming for the "most free in every sense of the word" award in the first place. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum