From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David.Kastrup@t-online.de (David Kastrup) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Idea for compilation mode Date: 08 Jun 2003 04:38:59 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20030606143233.7242.JMBARRANQUERO@laley.wke.es> Reply-To: dak@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1055039891 10024 80.91.224.249 (8 Jun 2003 02:38:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 02:38:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 08 04:38:09 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19Oq4O-0002bV-00 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 04:38:08 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19OqNi-0006P4-00 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 04:58:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Oq6X-0001hd-IV for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 22:40:21 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19Oq5y-0001JZ-3M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 22:39:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19Oq5j-0000e2-7M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 22:39:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailout07.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.83]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Oq5Z-0008Nh-9M; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 22:39:21 -0400 Original-Received: from fwd06.aul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 19Oq5U-0001N9-00; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 04:39:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (rPS4v+ZDZea8bz6RpNwQvVdGrgQITcuagOwQ5V94KMbcW7ZKBLsX8X@[62.226.11.234]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 19Oq5R-0SlGAC0; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 04:39:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h582d4tf015337; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 04:39:11 +0200 Original-Received: (from dak@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h582cxP1015333; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 04:38:59 +0200 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 31 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-Seen: false X-ID: rPS4v+ZDZea8bz6RpNwQvVdGrgQITcuagOwQ5V94KMbcW7ZKBLsX8X Original-cc: stl@isogmbh.de Original-cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14906 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14906 Richard Stallman writes: > I'm not interested in making any major changes in Emacs key bindings > for the sake of non-US keyboards. It would be too much trouble. Naturally. It is just a thing to keep in mind for creating keymaps that some keys are often worse to reach than others, when switching to a different language. ` is an example for a key that is horrible to type on almost any keyboard except US ones, and so it should be avoided for important key bindings like next-error. > However, it might perhaps make sense to support optional alternate > binding themes for some of these layouts. Those could be maintained > by users of those keyboard layouts, perhaps using > key-translation-map to make them independent of the rest of Emacs. > That way, they won't be a maintenance burden. That would be overkill, I guess. Most keybindings for Emacs are designed not for ergonomicity, but for their mnemonic value. For example, C-b C-f C-p C-n make just as little sense on a Dvorak keyboard as they do on an American. This is in stark difference to the bindings of vi, where the cursor movements hjkl very much depend on a Qwert-based keyboard layout in order to work. In my opinion, national keyboard themes would not be worth the trouble for Emacs, but keeping in mind keys like "`@\" and a few others as being awkward in particular in connection with modifier keys will be a boon for many users. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum