From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Max Nikulin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Texinfo reputation (was: Re: [External] : Re: Proposal: Include C Manual from RMS in Emacs git, and/or release) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2024 10:00:56 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87ser8c230.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86zflglu3h.fsf@aarsen.me> <86iks47qun.fsf@gnu.org> <865xo4h9w7.fsf@aarsen.me> <867c8k7aig.fsf@gnu.org> <861pys6i8z.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25703"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 02 04:22:43 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tHx1G-0006aj-A1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 02 Dec 2024 04:22:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tHx0F-0003Uy-UW; Sun, 01 Dec 2024 22:21:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tHwgR-0001yt-RT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Dec 2024 22:01:11 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tHwgP-00047b-GJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Dec 2024 22:01:11 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tHwgL-0008yR-4w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Dec 2024 04:01:05 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Content-Language: en-US, ru-RU In-Reply-To: <861pys6i8z.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 23 X-Spam_score: 2.3 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 01 Dec 2024 22:21:37 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325936 Archived-At: On 01/12/2024 13:15, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > My evidence is that when people report problems with GNU manuals, they > almost always show a URL of the HTML documentation. I would include an http(s): link into an issue report to avoid ugly multistep style of addressing info nodes as in > emacs --help [...] > Run M-x info RET m emacs RET m emacs invocation RET inside Emacs to > read the main documentation for these command-line arguments. and to allow people reading the message from a mobile device to easily inspect the actual text. That is why I consider URLs in reports as a weak evidence. Side note: likely I would duplicate the reference as (info "(emacs) Emacs Invocation"). My impression based on debian-user mailing list messages is that people avoid info manuals due to inconvenience of the standalone reader. They have some workarounds for cases when length of a man page is excessively high for comfortable reading. An example is PDF generated from BASH man page despite BASH has the manual in the texinfo format. Those who read .info documents may recommend e.g. pinfo. From my point of view, tkinfo is usually better than "info". Another issue is that there is no standard way to share a link to a specific node of a texinfo document. khelpcenter and yelp use different URL schemes for this purpose. It may not be easy to get link to the currently displayed node and that style of links would not be helpful for Emacs or standalone info browsers. Debian 12 bookworm: "emacs -f info-standalone" option is not included into update-alternatives --list infobrowser /usr/bin/info /usr/bin/tkinfo Feel free to forward this message to a texinfo mailing list. Another reason why I have decided to post it here is the following message: On 30/11/2024 21:12, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Texinfo comes with info-stnd.info, > which documents the stand-alone reader, which is part of Texinfo. > > So I don't see how that move could damage the reputation of Texinfo. > > Do you have any information to suggest that many people use the > stand-alone reader?