* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 17:14 ` `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex Kevin Rodgers
@ 2006-05-15 17:51 ` David Kastrup
2006-05-15 20:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-05-15 18:04 ` Reiner Steib
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2006-05-15 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
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Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664@yahoo.com> writes:
> Richard Stallman wrote:
>> If adding `i' causes the refcard to become overfull, I think we should
>> _replace_ the "\key{search nodes for regexp}{M-s}" entry with an entry
>> that describes the `i' command, since the latter is by far more
>> important than the former.
>>
>> Maybe you are right. However, it would be hard to change the translations
>> soon. So let's leave this for later.
>
> Hard? There are only 6 translations of etc/refcard.tex (cs, de, fr, pl,
> ru, and sk). I submitted the following to 5 different online
> translation services:
>
> I said, "Look up a subject in the indices."
>
> and got the following results:
>
> de (German) Ich sagte, "schauen Sie oben ein Thema in den Indizes."
> Ich habe gesagt, "Aussehen auf ein Thema in den Indizes".
> Ich sagte, „schauen Sie oben ein Thema in den Indizes.“
> Ich sagte, "Schlagen Sie ein Thema in den Indizes Nach."
> Ich sagte, "schauen Sie oben ein Thema in den Indizes."
>
> fr (French) J'ai dit, "recherchez un sujet dans les index."
> J'ai dit, « le Regard en haut un sujet dans les index. »
> J'ai dit, « recherchez un sujet dans les index. »
> J'ai dit, "Cherchez un sujet dans l'indices."
> J'ai dit, "recherchez un sujet dans les index."
>
> ru (Russian) Я сказал, "посмотрите вверх вопрос в индексах."
> Я сказал, " Ищите предмет в индексах. "
> Я сказал, «посмотрите вверх вопрос в индексах.»
> Я сказал, "Ищите предмет в индексах."
> Я сказал, "посмотрите вверх вопрос в индексах."
>
> Surely the native German, French, and Russian speakers on this list
> can agree on the best translation.
Can't speak for Russian, but for German and French certainly the
native speakers will agree that the above "translations" are
intolerable.
There is little sense in "agreeing" on a single sentence translation
when it is easy enough _giving_ such a sentence.
> That leaves just cs (Czech), pl (Polish), and sk (Slovak).
>
> (I hoped that the direct quote and imperative voice would make it
> simple to extract the relevant part of the translation.
That is assuming that the imperative voice would be the correct choice
for such a table. Which would be wrong in most languages _including_
English AFAICT (it's just that in English many forms look the same).
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
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* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 17:14 ` `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex Kevin Rodgers
2006-05-15 17:51 ` David Kastrup
@ 2006-05-15 18:04 ` Reiner Steib
2006-05-15 18:20 ` Michaël Cadilhac
2006-05-15 19:45 ` Werner LEMBERG
2006-05-18 22:22 ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
3 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-05-15 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: Richard Stallman, emacs-devel
On Mon, May 15 2006, Kevin Rodgers wrote:
> Richard Stallman wrote:
>> If adding `i' causes the refcard to become overfull, I think we should
>> _replace_ the "\key{search nodes for regexp}{M-s}" entry with an entry
>> that describes the `i' command, since the latter is by far more
>> important than the former.
>>
>> Maybe you are right. However, it would be hard to change the translations
>> soon. So let's leave this for later.
>
> Hard? There are only 6 translations of etc/refcard.tex (cs, de, fr, pl,
> ru, and sk).
Even if we can't translate all, we should install the others. (I
already volunteered to contact the translators in my initial mail.)
> I submitted the following to 5 different online translation
> services: [...]
All of these German translation are all nonsense. ;-)
> Surely the native German, French, and Russian speakers on this list
> can agree on the best translation. That leaves just cs (Czech), pl
> (Polish), and sk (Slovak).
Here are suggestion for English, German and French if the plural
"indices" should be used:
--- refcard.tex 5 Feb 2006 23:44:47 -0000 1.13
+++ refcard.tex 15 May 2006 17:42:14 -0000
@@ -598,8 +598,9 @@
Other:
\key{run Info {\bf tutorial}}{h}
+\key{look up a subject in the indices}{i}
+\key{search nodes for regexp}{s}
\key{{\bf quit} Info}{q}
-\key{search nodes for regexp}{M-s}
\endindentedkeys
--- de-refcard.tex 5 Feb 2006 23:44:47 -0000 1.7
+++ de-refcard.tex 15 May 2006 17:42:13 -0000
@@ -563,9 +563,9 @@
Sonstige:
\key{Info {\bf Tutorial} starten}{h}
-\key{Info Befehle zeigen}{?}
+\key{Begriff in den Indices suchen}{i}
+\key{Knoten nach reg. Ausd. durchsuchen}{s}
\key{Info {\bf verlassen} }{q}
-\key{Knoten nach reg. Ausd. durchsuchen}{M-s}
\endindentedkeys
--- fr-refcard.tex 5 Feb 2006 23:44:47 -0000 1.11
+++ fr-refcard.tex 15 May 2006 17:42:13 -0000
@@ -588,8 +588,9 @@
Autres :
\key{lancer le {\bf didacticiel} Info}{h}
+\key{recherchez un sujet dans les index}{i}
+\key{rechercher les n\oe{}uds avec une expression rationnelle}{s}
\key{{\bf quitter} Info}{q}
-\key{rechercher les n\oe{}uds avec une expression rationnelle}{M-s}
\endindentedkeys
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 18:04 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2006-05-15 18:20 ` Michaël Cadilhac
2006-05-15 18:23 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-15 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: Richard Stallman, emacs-devel
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Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> Here are suggestion for English, German and French if the plural
> "indices" should be used:
> [...]
> --- fr-refcard.tex 5 Feb 2006 23:44:47 -0000 1.11
> +++ fr-refcard.tex 15 May 2006 17:42:13 -0000
> @@ -588,8 +588,9 @@
> Autres :
>
> \key{lancer le {\bf didacticiel} Info}{h}
> +\key{recherchez un sujet dans les index}{i}
« recherche*r* un sujet dans les index*es* ». But I don't see why
the plural is used here, I'd rather write:
« rechercher un sujet dans l'index ».
> +\key{rechercher les n\oe{}uds avec une expression rationnelle}{s}
> \key{{\bf quitter} Info}{q}
> -\key{rechercher les n\oe{}uds avec une expression rationnelle}{M-s}
>
> \endindentedkeys
Regards,
--
| Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac | Pour les 35-40 ans, l'humour |
| Epita/LRDE Promo 2007 | c'est une plus-value. |
| http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m | -- Guillaume L. |
`-- - JID: micha@amessage.be --' - --'
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* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 18:20 ` Michaël Cadilhac
@ 2006-05-15 18:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2006-05-15 18:33 ` Michaël Cadilhac
2006-05-15 19:47 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2006-05-15 18:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: Kevin Rodgers, Richard Stallman, emacs-devel
> « recherche*r* un sujet dans les index*es* ». But I don't see why
> the plural is used here, I'd rather write:
> « rechercher un sujet dans l'index ».
I'd just say "chercher dans l'index"
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 18:23 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2006-05-15 18:33 ` Michaël Cadilhac
2006-05-16 3:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2006-05-15 19:47 ` Reiner Steib
1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Michaël Cadilhac @ 2006-05-15 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: Kevin Rodgers, Richard Stallman, emacs-devel
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Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>> « recherche*r* un sujet dans les index*es* ». But I don't see why
(My bad, it's « index »)
>> the plural is used here, I'd rather write:
>> « rechercher un sujet dans l'index ».
>
> I'd just say "chercher dans l'index"
The shorter, the simpler, the better :-)
However, if it's a « recherche », you'd say « *re*chercher dans
l'index »
--
| Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac | Pour les 35-40 ans, l'humour |
| Epita/LRDE Promo 2007 | c'est une plus-value. |
| http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m | -- Guillaume L. |
`-- - JID: micha@amessage.be --' - --'
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 18:33 ` Michaël Cadilhac
@ 2006-05-16 3:43 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2006-05-16 3:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: Kevin Rodgers, Richard Stallman, emacs-devel
>>> « recherche*r* un sujet dans les index*es* ». But I don't see why
> (My bad, it's « index »)
>>> the plural is used here, I'd rather write:
>>> « rechercher un sujet dans l'index ».
>> I'd just say "chercher dans l'index"
> The shorter, the simpler, the better :-)
Well, not sure.
> However, if it's a « recherche », you'd say « *re*chercher dans
> l'index »
No.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 18:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2006-05-15 18:33 ` Michaël Cadilhac
@ 2006-05-15 19:47 ` Reiner Steib
1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2006-05-15 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: Kevin Rodgers, Michaël Cadilhac, Richard Stallman,
emacs-devel
On Mon, May 15 2006, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> « recherche*r* un sujet dans les index*es* ». But I don't see why
>> the plural is used here, I'd rather write:
>> « rechercher un sujet dans l'index ».
>
> I'd just say "chercher dans l'index"
My intend was to keep it similar to the `M-s'/`s' (Info-search) entry
(but I forgot to s/recherchez/recherches/). But that isn't necessary,
or we could shorten both lines.
Anyhow, my French is quite rusty, so it's up to the native speakers...
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread
* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 17:14 ` `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex Kevin Rodgers
2006-05-15 17:51 ` David Kastrup
2006-05-15 18:04 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2006-05-15 19:45 ` Werner LEMBERG
2006-05-18 22:22 ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Werner LEMBERG @ 2006-05-15 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-devel
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> I said, "Look up a subject in the indices."
>
> and got the following results:
>
> de (German) Ich sagte, "schauen Sie oben ein Thema in den Indizes."
> Ich habe gesagt, "Aussehen auf ein Thema in den Indizes".
> Ich sagte, „schauen Sie oben ein Thema in den Indizes.“
> Ich sagte, "Schlagen Sie ein Thema in den Indizes Nach."
> Ich sagte, "schauen Sie oben ein Thema in den Indizes."
None of the German translation is really good. I suggest:
suche Index-Eintrag
Werner
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* Re: `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex
2006-05-15 17:14 ` `i' missing in etc/refcard.tex Kevin Rodgers
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2006-05-15 19:45 ` Werner LEMBERG
@ 2006-05-18 22:22 ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Slawomir Nowaczyk @ 2006-05-18 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
On Mon, 15 May 2006 11:14:51 -0600
Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664@yahoo.com> wrote:
#> I said, "Look up a subject in the indices."
#> <snip>
#> Surely the native German, French, and Russian speakers on this list
#> can agree on the best translation. That leaves just cs (Czech), pl
#> (Polish), and sk (Slovak).
In Polish, it would probably be: "wyszukaj zagadnienie w indeksach"
--
Best wishes,
Slawomir Nowaczyk
( slawomir.nowaczyk.847@student.lu.se )
Real programmers can write assembly code in any language.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread