From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes to Texinfo DTD Date: 04 Dec 2003 10:12:20 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <8765heixvu.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <87ptfkdqss.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <20031122214251.GA14680@fencepost> <874qwuqjzw.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <200311241619.hAOGJ6W27027@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200312030147.hB31lUh20316@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <2914-Wed03Dec2003181809+0200-eliz@elta.co.il> <200312040335.hB43ZuS25927@raven.dms.auburn.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1070525808 11309 80.91.224.253 (4 Dec 2003 08:16:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:16:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, epameinondas@gmx.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, nferrier@tapsellferrier.co.uk, bob@rattlesnake.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 04 09:16:42 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ARofC-00070J-00 for ; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:16:42 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ARofC-0004MG-00 for ; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:16:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ARpXL-0001Y9-0Z for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:12:39 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ARpX5-0001Wm-Cp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:12:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ARpWZ-0001Bz-8e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:12:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [207.232.27.5] (helo=WST0054) by monty-python.gnu.org with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ARpWY-00017A-KK; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:11:50 -0500 Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-reply-to: <200312040335.hB43ZuS25927@raven.dms.auburn.edu> (message from Luc Teirlinck on Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:35:56 -0600 (CST)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18357 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18357 > Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:35:56 -0600 (CST) > From: Luc Teirlinck > > Do we know what information from the glibc manual is required reading > for the reader of the ELisp manual? > > None. Some readers _might_ need to know more about locales (hence the > reference), but the _reason_ they would need that knowledge would > definitely not be to understand the Elisp manual. In that case, we should consider removing the xref or maybe rewording it so that its importance is minimized. > Note that this is one more reason why, if a reference refers to another > manual, the reader needs to know that and needs to know which manual. I don't need to note this, since I agreed with you in the first place: that's why I suggested to change the wording to make this point clear. > But (elisp)Locales says as the very last sentence of the note and of > the chapter: > > *Note Locales: (libc)Locales, for more information about locales and > locale items. > > It says: "for more information", it does not say: "If you want to > understand anything of what you just read". "@xref{Something}, for more information" is a standard wording, we use it for many references that are quite important. > Portability has nothing to do with this. > > Portability has a lot to do with this. This is the Elisp manual, not > the Emacs manual. The author may want his code to not just work, as > efficiently as possible, for his computer and for his locale, but for > other people's as well. In that case, we should provide information (or a pointer to a source of such information) that describes the locale issue in a manner that is independent of any particular implementation. The glibc manual is an unlikely place to find such a description, as the glibc implementation of locale-specific stuff differs in many aspects from other implementations. > The question is, again, what exactly we want the user to pick up in > the glibc manual. > > Whichever information the reader happens to need. The reference means: > If you need to know something we did not tell you above, here is a > reasonable place to search for that information. See above: when we say "see elsewhere for more info", we normally invite the user to actually go there.