Query re `format-mode-line'

Query re `format-mode-line'

[Robert J. Chassell]

`format-mode-line' is a function in `emacs/src/xdisp.c'.  It was first
put into CVS on 11 June 2002.

GNU Emacs version 21.1 was released on 20 October 2001 and
`format-mode-line' came after that.  However, although I do not know
when 21.4 was released, the date for building a Debian-modified
version 21.4 is 2005.

Emacs 21.4 has it in the symbol-name slot of a symbol, but no where
else.

The current CVS has it in the symbol-function slot, too.

It is listed in NEWS as a new function in Emacs 22.1

Does anyone know what happened to get `format-mode-line' listed in the
symbol-name slot of a symbol, but no where else, in Emacs 21.4?

Do only bug fixes go into minor version updates such as 21.4?  Or put
another way, have there been no new functions introduced into the
Emacs that most people use since 2001?

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc

Re: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Richard Stallman]

    Do only bug fixes go into minor version updates such as 21.4?  Or put
    another way, have there been no new functions introduced into the
    Emacs that most people use since 2001?

Yes.

RE: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Drew Adams]

        Do only bug fixes go into minor version updates such as
        21.4?  Or put another way, have there been no new functions
        introduced into the Emacs that most people use since 2001?

    Yes.

Does this mean that adding new features "after the release" really means
they won't be available until the next major release (circa 2048)? We and
our great grandchildren will miss them. ;-)

Re: Query re `format-mode-line'

[David Kastrup]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>         Do only bug fixes go into minor version updates such as
>         21.4?  Or put another way, have there been no new functions
>         introduced into the Emacs that most people use since 2001?
>
>     Yes.
>
> Does this mean that adding new features "after the release" really
> means they won't be available until the next major release (circa
> 2048)? We and our great grandchildren will miss them. ;-)

Emacs 23 is the unicode2 branch.  It is being maintained in parallel
at the moment and kept in reasonable shape, and some stuff has been
merged into it that is not in Emacs 22 if I remember correctly.  When
Emacs 22 is out and reasonably debugged, so that we won't need more
22.x releases, the unicode branch will get merged to HEAD.  Then this
will get merged into the multi-tty branch, and when this seems
successful, the merge of multi-tty will go back into HEAD as well.

Both branches are in reasonable shape AFAIK.  When most of the merges
are through and it is clear whether we will release with multi-tty or
not, adding new features starts making sense again.  Those should,
however, be not too potentially destabilizing (like the lexical-let
branch, I would guess, or Emacs-bidi).

This is the idea of the next release after Emacs 22, and, considering
the state of affairs in the branches, it should not take much more
than half a year.  After all, the manual and code are in a good shape
with our current release, and the Emacs 23 changes are somewhat
localized.

Once unicode2 has become HEAD, there will be sense again in working
seriously on the Bidi branch.  However, it is not clear when that will
be fit for merging.

I don't see what you hope to accomplish by pressing for destabilizing
development right now with new features.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

RE: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Drew Adams]

    >         Do only bug fixes go into minor version updates such as
    >         21.4?  Or put another way, have there been no new functions
    >         introduced into the Emacs that most people use since 2001?
    >
    >     Yes.
    >
    > Does this mean that adding new features "after the release" really
    > means they won't be available until the next major release (circa
    > 2048)? We and our great grandchildren will miss them. ;-)

    Emacs 23 is the unicode2 branch.  It is being maintained in parallel
    at the moment and kept in reasonable shape, and some stuff has been
    merged into it that is not in Emacs 22 if I remember correctly.  When
    Emacs 22 is out and reasonably debugged, so that we won't need more
    22.x releases, the unicode branch will get merged to HEAD.  Then this
    will get merged into the multi-tty branch, and when this seems
    successful, the merge of multi-tty will go back into HEAD as well.

    Both branches are in reasonable shape AFAIK.  When most of the merges
    are through and it is clear whether we will release with multi-tty or
    not, adding new features starts making sense again.  Those should,
    however, be not too potentially destabilizing (like the lexical-let
    branch, I would guess, or Emacs-bidi).

    This is the idea of the next release after Emacs 22, and, considering
    the state of affairs in the branches, it should not take much more
    than half a year.  After all, the manual and code are in a good shape
    with our current release, and the Emacs 23 changes are somewhat
    localized.

    Once unicode2 has become HEAD, there will be sense again in working
    seriously on the Bidi branch.  However, it is not clear when that will
    be fit for merging.

    I don't see what you hope to accomplish by pressing for destabilizing
    development right now with new features.

1. This is all good and interesting news. I was not aware of all that. I had
seen mention here of the unicode branch, the multi-tty branch, and bidi, but
I hadn't seen any such explanation. Thank you for the info.

2. I was joking, David. This release has been imminent or incipient for a
long time. There have been many harmless jokes about that.

3. I am not "pressing for destabilizing development right now with new
features".  And "I don't see what you hope to accomplish" by saying that I
am.

Chill, please. I have not suggested adding _any_ new features to this
release, in fact. For almost 3 years now, I've only discussed possible
features to add _after_ the release (though some did get added to this
release).

In the case of some major possible features I have in mind, I've not brought
them up at all, because I've been waiting for the release first (2-3 years).
I've raised only minor possible features, and always only for "after the
release".

An exception to this minor-only discussion policy is that in Feb 2005 I
proposed some changes to Customize (for after the release, again) which it
turned out might not be minor, so that discussion was subsequently postponed
until after the release.

I'm interested in discussing additional features to be added, or changes to
be made, to Emacs _after_ the release, and I'm happy to learn that that will
likely be sooner than I expected. I'm also happy that the long anticipated
release will soon become a reality. Hallelujah!

Re: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Nick Roberts]

 > This is the idea of the next release after Emacs 22, and, considering
 > the state of affairs in the branches, it should not take much more
 > than half a year.

Surely history shows that is pointless to talk about timescales.  It just
leads to anger and disappointment.

-- 
Nick                                           http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob

RE: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Drew Adams]

     > This is the idea of the next release after Emacs 22, and, 
     > considering the state of affairs in the branches, it should
     > not take much more than half a year.
    
    Surely history shows that is pointless to talk about 
    timescales.

Yes. Although he didn't say which year...

    It just leads to anger and disappointment.

Or lame dark humor.

Re: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Miles Bader]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>     It just leads to anger and disappointment.
>
> Or lame dark humor.

And there's a decided lack of lame dark humor around here.

-Miles
-- 
Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time.  -- Steven Wright

Re: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Richard Stallman]

    And there's a decided lack of lame dark humor around here.

Are you calling the maintainer team lame darks?
As far as I know, nobody is scheduled to replace us yet.

Re: Query re `format-mode-line'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:58:00 -0700
> 
> Does this mean that adding new features "after the release" really means
> they won't be available until the next major release (circa 2048)? We and
> our great grandchildren will miss them. ;-)

They will be available from CVS HEAD as soon as 22.1 enters pretest,
since that's when the release branch is cut, and the trunk is unfrozen
for adding new features.