From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Leake Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Binding F11 and F12 to buffer-switching and file-saving by default Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:21:56 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87veio3npx.fsf@localhost.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1170257341 2066 80.91.229.12 (31 Jan 2007 15:29:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:29:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Jason Spiro To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 31 16:28:44 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HCHIA-000711-2L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:22:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCHI9-00054S-IT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:22:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HCHHu-00051h-NN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:22:18 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HCHHr-000505-4e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:22:18 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCHHq-000501-S7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:22:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mailhost2.gsfc.nasa.gov ([128.183.244.130]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HCHHq-00031P-Bg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:22:14 -0500 Original-Received: from popc.gsfc.nasa.gov (pop200.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.244.176]) by mailhost2.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l0VFM8hJ003897; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:22:08 -0500 Original-Received: from ACS1100007992 (shevek.gsfc.nasa.gov [128.183.235.101]) by popc.gsfc.nasa.gov (8.13.7/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l0VFM1r8002818; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:22:06 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:09:02 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (windows-nt) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:65697 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> * to bind to some kind of buffer-switching command such as >> iswitchb-buffer, > >> * and to bind to save-buffer, > >> by default? These are very commonly used functions, so I think it >> is worthwhile to provide one-key access to them. > > Actually, I find this reasoning rather odd: > - on the one hand, they're much less used than many other commands. > Yes, it's very unlikely that a user would never use such commands in any > given Emacs session, but as for frequency of use, it's not that high up > the list. I use 'iswitchb-buffer' a _lot_. But it is an individual preference. > - F11 and F12 are rather far, so they're not quick. It's "one key", > but it's not clear that it's quicker to use than C-x C-s for > example. I have iswitchb-buffer bound to F11, and find-file bound to F12. I much prefer single keys (even when "far") to double keys; my wrists have trouble reaching the control key. Again, a very personal preference. > This said, I think it probably makes sense to give default bindings to those > Fn keys rather than leave them unused. We should keep them as "user > modifiable" keys, tho (i.e. commands bound to an Fn key should also have > a good other binding). I agree with the goal to "make Emacs more friendly to the newbie". But I think that is best done via menus, not more keybindings. I also agree that this should be considered after the release. > I'd tend to consider the Fn keys in a similar way to menu entries or toolbar > entries. Actually maybe a good idea would be to map toolbar entries to Fn > keys: F2 presses the first button, F3 the second, etc... I don't think that's helpful. If I like the toolbar, it's because I use the mouse, so the function key bindings would just be redundant. If I don't like the toolbar, I turn it off to allow more space for buffer contents, so I would lose the labeling of the function keys. -- -- Stephe