From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Meanness Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:16:09 +0300 Message-ID: References: <20080726081019.GB1419@muc.de> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217085388 23130 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2008 15:16:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:16:28 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 26 17:17:14 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMlWD-0005Ei-KT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:17:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38467 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMlVJ-0005Pi-Jd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:16:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMlVE-0005NT-TW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:16:12 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMlVD-0005N2-TN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:16:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36674 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMlVD-0005Mz-OB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:16:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout3.012.net.il ([84.95.2.7]:65493) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KMlVD-0006Yf-J0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:16:11 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.123.9]) by i_mtaout3.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K4M00E6WD31IXN5@i_mtaout3.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:16:14 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101527 Archived-At: > From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:49:27 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Everybody here is adult enough to respect others' views on contentious > topics. Let's do this. > > On cannot respect a view that concedes that doing something immoral > and unethical is right; non-free software is always the wrong way to > do things. You are exaggerating, and so are others who expressed similarly extremist views in this dispute. "Immoral" and "unethical" are very strong terms that should be reserved for something that either immediately harms life and happiness of people, or (if the effect is not immediate) whose long-term harm can be proven or is recognized as such by a majority. The idea that a world where everyone has freedom to modify and redistribute software is a better world, while I (and everyone who reads this list) agree with it, does not satisfy these criteria. Therefore, fighting holy wars on its behalf, and in particular condemning people who use non-free software as unethical, will only harm the Free Software movement by rejecting those who may for some reason be unwilling or unable to embrace it 100%. Let's assume that I have a spouse or an elderly parent who are asking my help with their PC running a non-free OS: by the above reasoning, I should divorce my spouse or renounce my parents, rather than helping them, if for some reason they absolutely won't have me install a free OS. If someone thinks a world or a society where this is the norm is more moral than the one we have now, then we probably have two very different notions of what is moral. If someone thinks I'm unethical because helping people is more important for me than converting them to my beliefs, then that someone's ethics is quite different from mine. We have a common goal here: improving Emacs. Let's not put that goal in jeopardy by emphasizing minor (yes, minor!) differences between us on how soon and how completely should each private citizen switch to using Free Software and Free Software alone.