From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oliver Scholz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: terminal escapes in Info files? Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:40:35 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200310281746.h9SHk2915693@f7.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1067453624 18902 80.91.224.253 (29 Oct 2003 18:53:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:53:44 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 29 19:53:42 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AEvRt-0003vY-00 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:53:41 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AEvRt-0002sr-00 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:53:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEvM2-00062u-Sl for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:47:38 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AEvGA-0002Dx-QO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:41:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AEvFb-0001qh-Ts for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:41:32 -0500 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEvFa-0001pU-WE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:40:59 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 14614 invoked by uid 65534); 29 Oct 2003 18:40:56 -0000 Original-Received: from dialin-145-254-191-215.arcor-ip.net (EHLO HERMES) (145.254.191.215) by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 19:40:56 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1497658 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Robert J. Chassell's message of "Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:29:00 +0000 (UTC)") X-Attribution: os X-Face: "HgH2sgK|bfH$; PiOJI6|qUCf.ve<51_Od(%ynHr?=>znn#~#oS>",F%B8&\vus),2AsPYb -n>PgddtGEn}s7kH?7kH{P_~vu?]OvVN^qD(L)>G^gDCl(U9n{:d>'DkilN!_K"eNzjrtI4Ya6; Td% IZGMbJ{lawG+'J>QXPZD&TwWU@^~A}f^zAb[Ru;CT(UA]c& User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3.50 (windows-nt) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17566 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17566 "Robert J. Chassell" writes: > Oliver Scholz wrote > > IIRC desctop environments like KDE or Gnome already use a browser > for their “help desk” ... > > Yes, they do; and that means that their online help is worse than the > online help I read in the mid-1980s. They have retrogressed a > generation. [...] > At the very least, please keep Info up to the efficiency of the > 1980s. [...] I had absolutely no intention to suggest anything to make the info system worse. I love it by heart and despite it deficencies I find it superior to any other documentation or help system that I know. All I said is that a) the info file format should in the long run support more syntactical information and b) that it is a good idea to choose a markup in such a way that a browser would render it as HTML. More precisely put: I suggested a subset of HTML (XHTML compatible to HTML) with the additional two conventions: 1. Some of the markup is taken as providing the information necessary for the info reader (like linebreaks, indexes etc.). As it was discussed earlier in this thread. 2. The file contains all the necessary whitespace characters, so that simply stripping the markup would result in a properly formatted plain text file. All that a minimal conforming UA would have to parse is the markup that is used for 1), it could then simply strip all the other markup and dump it on the screen. I believe that this is a way to get more syntactical markup with no more work than what would be required for any other syntactical markup. (That might still be too much, as Eli pointed out. But I think, at least in the long run it should happen.) If that is true, then I say that it is a good idea too choose HTML, because some people could use their browsers to view the files and other help systems could directly link to the files of the info system. This is surely suboptimal, but if somebody really wants to use her browser, there is no need to raise artificial impediments. [After all, being an Emacs user of the “I do everything inside of Emacs” sort, I can imagine that some people would prefer to use the browser with which they are already familiar. It is a good thing if you can limit the number of applications you use and thus the number of different user interfaces. People that do not use Emacs, have not seen the light yet. But what is there to do other than trying to spread the gospel?] Oliver -- Oliver Scholz 8 Brumaire an 212 de la Révolution Taunusstr. 25 Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité! 60329 Frankfurt a. M. http://www.jungdemokratenhessen.de Tel. (069) 97 40 99 42 http://www.jdjl.org