From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "What's This?" in Describe submenu Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:04:38 +0300 Message-ID: References: <4308398B.60401@gmx.at> <200508211726.j7LHQVI11729@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200508211759.j7LHxX011763@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200508212138.j7LLcLK12095@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200508220430.j7M4UmT12547@raven.dms.auburn.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1124741412 13412 80.91.229.2 (22 Aug 2005 20:10:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:10:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 22 22:10:09 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7Iai-0004ta-Ej for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:08:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7IeS-0006kH-GJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:12:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1E7IbL-0004zU-Et for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:09:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1E7IbE-0004wT-5y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:08:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7IbD-0004vi-S7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:08:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.114.186.66] (helo=romy.inter.net.il) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1E7IXo-00047q-01 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:05:20 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-56-35.inter.net.il [80.230.56.35]) by romy.inter.net.il (MOS 3.5.8-GR) with ESMTP id CEO81220 (AUTH halo1); Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:04:36 +0300 (IDT) Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-reply-to: <200508220430.j7M4UmT12547@raven.dms.auburn.edu> (message from Luc Teirlinck on Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:30:48 -0500 (CDT)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:42323 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:42323 > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:30:48 -0500 (CDT) > From: Luc Teirlinck > CC: rudalics@gmx.at, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > That thread was mainly concerned with other stuff, but I believe the > > only real problem was that "Describe Key" did not make it clear that > > it also applies to menu items. > > The tooltip that pops up for that menu item does make this clear. > > In my previous reply I misread this. The tooltip does make _that_ > clear. But it does not clear up any of the misunderstandings caused > by two menu items that do exactly the same thing, but whose names (as > well as the mere fact that they are different menu items) suggest that > they do different things. Does it also confuse you that C-h and F1, which are 2 differently named keys, both produce the same result? This analogy may be a bit far-fetched (and deliberately so), but it is not nonsensical: the F1 binding was added to Emacs for similar reasons: because some users _expected_ F1 to bring help, while C-h was something they would not consider trying. Similarly, the purpose of adding "What's This?" was, AFAIU, that newbies might not realize that a click on a tool-bar button or the mode line or the fringe, or selection of a menu item---that all these are key bindings, and that therefore "Describe Key" is the way to go to get help about them. "What's That?" was added in the hope that the menu item's name, and the name alone, will tell those newbies how to learn about the functionality of these UI features. In other words, that item was added for people who never in their dreams could confuse a key with a click on the fringe, say. For those users, this is by no means a duplication.