From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Russian letters Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 15:35:32 +0300 Message-ID: References: <200607052110.21816.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200607070048.15559.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200607072259.40276.pogonyshev@gmx.net> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1152362163 28211 80.91.229.2 (8 Jul 2006 12:36:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:36:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: handa@m17n.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 08 14:36:00 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FzC2P-00071Y-FW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:35:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FzC2O-0000o4-Sq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:35:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FzC29-0000m4-NP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:35:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FzC28-0000l3-AJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:35:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FzC28-0000kq-3G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:35:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.114.186.66] (helo=romy.inter.net.il) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FzC2l-0001ae-81 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:36:19 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-70-118.inter.net.il [80.230.70.118]) by romy.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3-GA) with ESMTP id FDN74913 (AUTH halo1); Sat, 8 Jul 2006 15:35:30 +0300 (IDT) Original-To: Paul Pogonyshev In-reply-to: <200607072259.40276.pogonyshev@gmx.net> (message from Paul Pogonyshev on Fri, 7 Jul 2006 22:59:40 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:56778 Archived-At: > From: Paul Pogonyshev > Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 22:59:40 +0300 > > > utf-fragment-on-decoding's value is nil > > > > Whether or not to decode some chars in UTF-8/16 text into iso8859 charsets. > > [...] > > Why not do the same to the typed characters? Maybe it does, let's find out: how did you type those characters? Did you use a Leim input method (which one?), or did you type them on your keyboard? > Current behavior is inconsistent---some characters are decoded (into > iso-8859 charsets), some are not. I think it is consistent in the default configuration. > > The reason why the default value is nil is precisely that most users > > will not want the fragmentation, they will want the characters to > > belong to a single character set. > > I understand you, but actually, most users do not bother. Emacs should > work `out of the box' and display the characters. It does work `out of the box', if you don't change the value of utf-fragment-on-decoding. > Why doesn't Emacs try to decode characters on displaying? Decoding happens on input, when the characters are inserted into a buffer, not when they are displayed. Such insertion occurs when you either (a) type the characters at the keyboard, or (b) visit a file, or (c) paste them from an X selection or a clipboard, or (d) read output of some process which interacts with Emacs. (I hope I didn't forget any other possibilities.) If you describe how you typed those characters, maybe we will find a bug that needs to be fixed. > > Did you set this variable to a non-nil value in your .emacs? If so, > > how about removing that customization? If the reason is that you > > don't have Unicode fonts installed, I think installing them is a > > better solution. > > I use Debian Sarge which is only 1 year old. And Emacs doesn't work > with its standard font and Cyrillic letters as is. (Well, I didn't > try the standard package, but CVS `emacs -Q' shows boxes.) I had enough > persistence to find the reason (here, thank you), but most users won't. > Especially since Emacs cannot even list font families (at least I don't > know how.) I still don't understand whether you modified the value of utf-fragment-on-decoding or it came that way with Debian Sarge. In the latter case, I think it's something to complain about to Debian maintainers. The missing fonts is also an issue with Debian, I think. Perhaps they have an optional package you need to install, but since you live in a Cyrillic locale (if I understand correctly the headers of your message), I find it hard to believe that your system lacks Unicode fonts that don't support Cyrillic characters. If you do have these fonts installed, maybe it's yet another bug in Emacs. One of your prior messages showed that your locale is en_US.utf8. I don't know enough about font selection and fontsets; Handa-san, could you please tell Paul what information to send in order to find out why Unicode fonts aren't found by Emacs?