From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:30:05 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192112985 7234 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 14:29:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:29:45 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 16:29:43 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ifz2h-0005mm-01 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:29:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifz2a-0004oD-Oy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:29:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifz2W-0004kp-GW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:29:28 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifz2V-0004j5-JY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:29:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifz2V-0004iw-Gi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:29:27 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ifz2V-0001DL-DK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:29:27 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 96B7938032; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80615 Archived-At: I note, in files.texi: The terms ``checkin'' and ``checkout'' are associated with file-based and locking-based systems and a bit archaic; nowadays those operations are usually called ``commit'' and ``update''. Since I've had to take a big hammer to VC's terminology anyway to clean up the inconsistencies Stefan pointed out, I'm thinking now might be a good time for me to go further and change these. The argument against, of course, is that users are accustomed to these terms. They're embedded in VC because when I originally wrote it SCCS and RCS were the only games in town[1] and these are the terms they used. The argument for is that 'commit' and 'update' are a better match for the terms CVS introduced and every subsequent VCS we're interested in has pretty much retained. -- Eric S. Raymond [1] Actually, CVS was in use at a university somewhere, but it didn't hit the big time til a few years after I wrote VC. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:25:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192123589 19866 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 17:26:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:26:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 19:26:27 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig1nj-0004L0-DC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:26:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig1nd-0001XM-0Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:26:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig1nY-0001TF-R0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:26:12 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig1nX-0001Pd-CN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:26:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig1nX-0001PK-3B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:26:11 -0400 Original-Received: from x-132-204-254-24.xtpr.umontreal.ca ([132.204.254.24] helo=ceviche.home) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig1nS-0000ZZ-SG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:26:11 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C7FA3B41BB; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:25:55 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Thu\, 11 Oct 2007 10\:30\:05 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80634 Archived-At: > The terms ``checkin'' and ``checkout'' are associated with file-based > and locking-based systems and a bit archaic; nowadays those operations > are usually called ``commit'' and ``update''. > Since I've had to take a big hammer to VC's terminology anyway to clean up > the inconsistencies Stefan pointed out, I'm thinking now might be a good > time for me to go further and change these. > The argument against, of course, is that users are accustomed to these > terms. They're embedded in VC because when I originally wrote it SCCS > and RCS were the only games in town[1] and these are the terms they used. > The argument for is that 'commit' and 'update' are a better match for the > terms CVS introduced and every subsequent VCS we're interested in has > pretty much retained. Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". But yes, "checkin" should be replaced by "commit". This said, I don't know if we should change it only in the doc, or also in the code, especially in the part of the code that interacts with the user (i.e. commands) or the backends: I think it's important to make sure that a single backend can work both with the new and the old VC. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:40:47 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192124518 23248 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 17:41:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:41:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 19:41:55 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig22d-0007V0-NY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:41:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig22X-0001cu-PF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:41:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig21h-00016M-7n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:40:49 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig21f-00015a-Sn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:40:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig21f-00015P-OZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:40:47 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig21f-0004Y8-JK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:40:47 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig21f-0000i9-5U; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:40:47 -0400 In-reply-to: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> (esr@thyrsus.com) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80640 Archived-At: The terms ``checkin'' and ``checkout'' are associated with file-based and locking-based systems and a bit archaic; nowadays those operations are usually called ``commit'' and ``update''. Since I've had to take a big hammer to VC's terminology anyway to clean up the inconsistencies Stefan pointed out, I'm thinking now might be a good time for me to go further and change these. Please deal with the fileset problem before tackling other issues. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:50:16 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192124995 24950 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 17:49:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:49:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 19:49:52 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig2AR-0000rZ-8k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:49:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2AL-0000G4-Au for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:49:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2AI-0000Fz-6J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:49:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2AF-0000Fn-Rr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:49:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2AF-0000Fk-MW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig2AC-0006oO-UN; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:49:37 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 8970A38032; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80644 Archived-At: Richard Stallman : > Please deal with the fileset problem before tackling other issues. Perhaps you missed my longer email on that issue. I don't see a problem there; in fact I would actively resist inventing a new term because I think fuileset means the same thing in both places. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:05:18 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071011180517.GC8243@thyrsus.com> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192125891 28331 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 18:04:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:04:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 20:04:50 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig2Ov-0004Dv-Uj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:04:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2Oq-0002gE-1O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:04:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2Ol-0002g9-Tk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:04:39 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2Ol-0002fx-FL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:04:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig2Ol-0002fu-D8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:04:39 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig2Ol-000209-0z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:04:39 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 60BA238032; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80646 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier : > Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". Yes, I'm aware of that problem. I need to do some comparative study of VCSes and think about their typologies some more before pursuing this. > But yes, "checkin" should be replaced by "commit". > > This said, I don't know if we should change it only in the doc, or also in > the code, especially in the part of the code that interacts with the user > (i.e. commands) or the backends: I think it's important to make sure that > a single backend can work both with the new and the old VC. That compatibility is gone beyond retrieval. It was already doomed when I moved the backends to taking fileset args, and I added another layer of impossible with the version -> revision terminology change. So if we're going to do this change at all, it might as well be in docs and code both. Maintaining consistency will save us problems later. But I need to some more thinking before moveing on this. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:08:27 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011180517.GC8243@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192133350 23439 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 20:09:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:09:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 22:09:07 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig4L3-0005gU-Nn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:08:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4Kx-0002Il-GG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:08:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4Ku-0002GN-JP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:08:48 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4Kt-0002F6-VT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:08:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4Kt-0002Ey-Rw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:08:47 -0400 Original-Received: from x-132-204-254-24.xtpr.umontreal.ca ([132.204.254.24] helo=ceviche.home) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig4Kp-0001vO-GG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:08:47 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7BC96B41BB; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:08:27 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20071011180517.GC8243@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Thu\, 11 Oct 2007 14\:05\:18 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80653 Archived-At: >> Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". ^^^ sure [sorry 'bout that] >> But yes, "checkin" should be replaced by "commit". >> This said, I don't know if we should change it only in the doc, or also in >> the code, especially in the part of the code that interacts with the user >> (i.e. commands) or the backends: I think it's important to make sure that >> a single backend can work both with the new and the old VC. > That compatibility is gone beyond retrieval. It was already doomed when > I moved the backends to taking fileset args, It worked fine back then. The backends just had to be careful to accept both a list or a string and to treat a string as a list of 1 element. > and I added another layer of impossible with the version -> revision > terminology change. We can (and maybe should) provide backward compatibility aliases to handle that. > So if we're going to do this change at all, it might as well be in docs and > code both. Maintaining consistency will save us problems later. OK. As said, we can (and maybe should) provide backward compatibility aliases. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:19:21 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071011201921.GB9670@thyrsus.com> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011180517.GC8243@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192133946 25518 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 20:19:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:19:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 22:19:03 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig4Ug-0007gF-FN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:18:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4UZ-0000Qs-E2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:18:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4UV-0000Qd-Ib for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:18:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4UT-0000Pv-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:18:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig4UT-0000Ps-Ne for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:18:41 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig4UT-0004AN-GB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:18:41 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id A911438032; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80655 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier : > OK. As said, we can (and maybe should) provide backward > compatibility aliases. Possible...but I severely doubt that API has any clients outside the Emacs libraries, or I'd have heard of it by now. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Nicolaescu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:45:54 -0700 Message-ID: <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192150025 7507 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 00:47:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:47:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 02:46:54 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig8g1-0004cK-IE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:46:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8fv-0001XK-Da for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:46:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8fs-0001WH-Cc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:46:44 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8fq-0001W5-Ud for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:46:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8fq-0001Vx-Pk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:46:42 -0400 Original-Received: from oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu ([128.195.1.41]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig8fq-0003hH-AE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:46:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mothra.ics.uci.edu (mothra.ics.uci.edu [128.195.6.93]) by oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l9C0k3Ti018924; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:46:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu\, 11 Oct 2007 13\:25\:55 -0400") Original-Lines: 8 X-ICS-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ICS-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.363, required 5, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.44, TW_BZ 0.08) X-ICS-MailScanner-From: dann@mothra.ics.uci.edu X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80672 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". Speaking of "update", vc-update needs to be rethought a bit. Mercurial, bzr and git (maybe other systems too) don't seem to want to do merges based on a file, but on changesets. What should we do about that? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:52 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011180517.GC8243@thyrsus.com> <20071011201921.GB9670@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192151261 10259 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 01:07:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 01:07:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 03:07:31 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig8za-0007Qz-3E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:07:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8zU-0006do-0C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:07:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8zP-0006bm-PS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:55 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8zO-0006Zw-8E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig8zO-0006Zp-57 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:54 -0400 Original-Received: from tomts43.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.110] helo=tomts43-srv.bellnexxia.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig8zN-0000Sy-Io for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:53 -0400 Original-Received: from ceviche.home ([70.55.141.81]) by tomts43-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20071012010652.MOSE26794.tomts43-srv.bellnexxia.net@ceviche.home> for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:52 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 7AE51B41BB; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:06:52 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20071011201921.GB9670@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Thu\, 11 Oct 2007 16\:19\:21 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 8 (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80675 Archived-At: >> OK. As said, we can (and maybe should) provide backward >> compatibility aliases. > Possible...but I severely doubt that API has any clients outside the > Emacs libraries, or I'd have heard of it by now. I'm concerned about new clients (e.g. Codeville, OpenCM, svk, ...). Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:53 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192151358 10545 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 01:09:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 01:09:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dan Nicolaescu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 03:09:07 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ig91X-0007jZ-4e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:09:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig91Q-00079f-HX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:09:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig91N-00079Q-7X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig91K-000796-QB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ig91K-000793-Lp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:54 -0400 Original-Received: from bc.sympatico.ca ([209.226.175.184] helo=tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ig91K-000152-54 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:54 -0400 Original-Received: from ceviche.home ([70.55.141.81]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20071012010853.YDKY18413.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@ceviche.home> for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:53 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 1F183B41BB; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:08:52 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> (Dan Nicolaescu's message of "Thu\, 11 Oct 2007 17\:45\:54 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 8 (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80676 Archived-At: >> Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". > Speaking of "update", vc-update needs to be rethought a bit. > Mercurial, bzr and git (maybe other systems too) don't seem to want to > do merges based on a file, but on changesets. > What should we do about that? Those backends should simply signal an error if requested to update something less than the whole tree. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:14:52 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192176916 10091 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 08:15:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 10:15:06 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgFfk-0000u0-HF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:15:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFfe-00054N-Go for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:14:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFfa-00050a-GT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:14:54 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFfZ-0004zK-Rr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:14:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFfZ-0004z8-Nt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:14:53 -0400 Original-Received: from heller.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.23]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgFfZ-0003T5-6R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:14:53 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-64-182.inter.net.il [80.230.64.182]) by heller.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id DVL11717 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:14:50 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> (esr@thyrsus.com) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80700 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:30:05 -0400 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > > The terms ``checkin'' and ``checkout'' are associated with file-based > and locking-based systems and a bit archaic; nowadays those operations > are usually called ``commit'' and ``update''. > > Since I've had to take a big hammer to VC's terminology anyway to clean up the > inconsistencies Stefan pointed out, I'm thinking now might be a good time > for me to go further and change these. > > The argument against, of course, is that users are accustomed to these > terms. They're embedded in VC because when I originally wrote it SCCS > and RCS were the only games in town[1] and these are the terms they used. > > The argument for is that 'commit' and 'update' are a better match for the > terms CVS introduced and every subsequent VCS we're interested in has pretty > much retained. How about making the replacement, but adding a footnote saying that some older VCS backends call these operations ``checkin'' and ``checkout''? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:24:38 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192177504 11891 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 08:25:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:25:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 10:24:53 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgFpD-0002Jt-Sx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:24:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFp7-00030o-Iu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:24:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFp4-000303-3S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:24:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFp1-0002zr-IJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:24:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgFp1-0002zo-DJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:24:39 -0400 Original-Received: from romy.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.24]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgFp1-0005YI-2D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:24:39 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-64-182.inter.net.il [80.230.64.182]) by romy.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3-GA) with ESMTP id JCC98584 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:24:25 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> (esr@thyrsus.com) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80701 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:50:16 -0400 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Richard Stallman : > > Please deal with the fileset problem before tackling other issues. > > Perhaps you missed my longer email on that issue. RMS reads email with a 24-hour delay, on average. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Nicolaescu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:23:51 -0700 Message-ID: <200710121523.l9CFNpOG008776@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192203611 6725 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 15:40:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:40:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 17:40:01 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgMPI-0002BP-02 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:26:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMPB-0005x4-Kc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:26:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMOm-0005TD-7k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:26:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMOk-0005R4-9B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:25:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMOj-0005Qp-UV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:25:57 -0400 Original-Received: from oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu ([128.195.1.41]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgMOj-0000Dm-F6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:25:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mothra.ics.uci.edu (mothra.ics.uci.edu [128.195.6.93]) by oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l9CFNpOG008776; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu\, 11 Oct 2007 21\:08\:53 -0400") Original-Lines: 18 X-ICS-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ICS-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.363, required 5, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.44, TW_BZ 0.08) X-ICS-MailScanner-From: dann@mothra.ics.uci.edu X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80715 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > >> Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". > > Speaking of "update", vc-update needs to be rethought a bit. > > Mercurial, bzr and git (maybe other systems too) don't seem to want to > > do merges based on a file, but on changesets. > > What should we do about that? > > Those backends should simply signal an error if requested to update > something less than the whole tree. So what would the UI be for that? vc-BACKEND-merge-news currently has a `file' parameter. Should backends check if it is a directory, and then run the merge command? Who is responsible for updating all the buffers for files that have been changed by the merge? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:59:27 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192205811 15104 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 16:16:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:16:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 18:16:41 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgN00-0001oo-Ui for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:04:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMzu-0004mI-P5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:04:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMvB-0002tz-OW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:59:29 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMvA-0002tH-8G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:59:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgMvA-0002t7-1E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:59:28 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgMv9-0000Zk-TG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:59:27 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgMv9-0001FU-5f; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:59:27 -0400 In-reply-to: <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> (esr@thyrsus.com) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80719 Archived-At: Perhaps you missed my longer email on that issue. I don't see a problem there; in fact I would actively resist inventing a new term because I think fuileset means the same thing in both places. I wish that were true, but it isn't. In VC, a fileset is the set of files marked in a dired buffer. This is a transitory set. In the Filesets node, filesets are semipermanent entities that you define with filesets-add-buffer or other mechanisms. It will be natural for the reader to suppose that "fileset" refers to the same sort of thing everywhere it is used in the manual. But it doesn't, and that is a serious problem. We cannot leave things this way. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:25:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121523.l9CFNpOG008776@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192207157 20194 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 16:39:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:39:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dan Nicolaescu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 18:39:06 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgNLZ-0006IV-OV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:26:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNLF-0004qt-TA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:26:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNLB-0004ps-Av for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:26:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNL3-0004nx-Al for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:26:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNL3-0004nt-63 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:26:13 -0400 Original-Received: from x-132-204-252-255.xtpr.umontreal.ca ([132.204.252.255] helo=ceviche.home) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgNKy-0006Yo-JL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:26:13 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A8C7AB41BB; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:25:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <200710121523.l9CFNpOG008776@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> (Dan Nicolaescu's message of "Fri\, 12 Oct 2007 08\:23\:51 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80728 Archived-At: >> >> Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". >> > Speaking of "update", vc-update needs to be rethought a bit. >> > Mercurial, bzr and git (maybe other systems too) don't seem to want to >> > do merges based on a file, but on changesets. >> > What should we do about that? >> >> Those backends should simply signal an error if requested to update >> something less than the whole tree. > So what would the UI be for that? You mean API rather than UI, right? > vc-BACKEND-merge-news currently has a `file' parameter. > Should backends check if it is a directory, and then run the merge > command? Those backends which can only perform such operations on whole trees, should (obviously) check that the parameter refers to a whole tree and signal an error if it doesn't. > Who is responsible for updating all the buffers for files that have > been changed by the merge? VC. The backend should return a list of files that were updated (maybe together with their new status?), and then vc.el will be in charge of reverting the corresponding buffers (and update the relevant vc-dired buffers, ...). Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Nicolaescu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:47:51 -0700 Message-ID: <200710121647.l9CGlpLY011358@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121523.l9CFNpOG008776@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192208478 25093 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 17:01:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:01:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 19:01:07 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgNi4-0002nn-HG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:50:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNhy-0006RQ-Bt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:49:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNhv-0006R5-Tb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:49:51 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNhv-0006Qd-0x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:49:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgNhu-0006QX-TZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:49:50 -0400 Original-Received: from oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu ([128.195.1.41]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgNhu-0002wb-Nr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:49:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mothra.ics.uci.edu (mothra.ics.uci.edu [128.195.6.93]) by oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l9CGlpLY011358; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri\, 12 Oct 2007 12\:25\:33 -0400") Original-Lines: 37 X-ICS-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ICS-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-0.763, required 5, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.44, J_CHICKENPOX_22 0.60, TW_BZ 0.08) X-ICS-MailScanner-From: dann@mothra.ics.uci.edu X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80732 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > >> >> Not about "checkout" which sometimes means "update" and sometimes "get". > >> > Speaking of "update", vc-update needs to be rethought a bit. > >> > Mercurial, bzr and git (maybe other systems too) don't seem to want to > >> > do merges based on a file, but on changesets. > >> > What should we do about that? > >> > >> Those backends should simply signal an error if requested to update > >> something less than the whole tree. > > > So what would the UI be for that? > > You mean API rather than UI, right? I mean UI. How does the user request a merge on such a VCS? Using "C-x v +" from any VC managed file? Should it then warn that the whole tree is getting merged? > > vc-BACKEND-merge-news currently has a `file' parameter. > > Should backends check if it is a directory, and then run the merge > > command? > > Those backends which can only perform such operations on whole trees, should > (obviously) check that the parameter refers to a whole tree and signal an > error if it doesn't. > > > Who is responsible for updating all the buffers for files that have > > been changed by the merge? > > VC. The backend should return a list of files that were updated (maybe > together with their new status?), and then vc.el will be in charge of > reverting the corresponding buffers (and update the relevant vc-dired > buffers, ...). What happens if there are conflicts in files that are not opened? Should VC show pop a vc-dired window and show them? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:34:40 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121523.l9CFNpOG008776@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121647.l9CGlpLY011358@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192210910 1499 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 17:41:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:41:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dan Nicolaescu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 19:41:37 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgOQj-0003Kv-Rr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:36:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgOQd-00055P-Gk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:36:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgOPf-0004bj-Rq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:35:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgOPd-0004ZN-VX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:35:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgOPd-0004Z4-HE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:35:01 -0400 Original-Received: from x-132-204-252-255.xtpr.umontreal.ca ([132.204.252.255] helo=ceviche.home) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgOPZ-0003WB-8r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:35:01 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 6279FB41BB; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:34:39 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <200710121647.l9CGlpLY011358@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> (Dan Nicolaescu's message of "Fri\, 12 Oct 2007 09\:47\:51 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80734 Archived-At: >> You mean API rather than UI, right? > I mean UI. How does the user request a merge on such a VCS? Using > "C-x v +" from any VC managed file? Should it then warn that the > whole tree is getting merged? No: it needs to do it from a place where he can specify the right fileset, i.e. from vc-dired (or maybe from just `dired' depending on how this works). > What happens if there are conflicts in files that are not opened? > Should VC show pop a vc-dired window and show them? The Lisp of possible features is open ended, but if the command was run from a vc-dired buffer, there's nothing special to do, which is a good reason to request that such commands be run from a vc-dired buffer. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 05:02:46 +0900 Message-ID: <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192219845 1085 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 20:10:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:10:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 22:10:34 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgQjK-0001pD-Fs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:03:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgQjE-0001yo-Aq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:03:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgQis-0001Uu-Em for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:03:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgQiq-0001RT-Gf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:03:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgQiq-0001RH-9d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:03:00 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp02.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.72]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgQii-0002xz-3i; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:02:52 -0400 Original-Received: from 203-216-97-240.dsl.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.97.240] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp02.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1IgQif-0002Ly-LB; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 05:02:49 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 48FE82F5D; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 05:02:46 +0900 (JST) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri\, 12 Oct 2007 11\:59\:27 -0400") Original-Lines: 13 X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80742 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I wish that were true, but it isn't. In VC, a fileset is the > set of files marked in a dired buffer. This is a transitory set. > In the Filesets node, filesets are semipermanent entities > that you define with filesets-add-buffer or other mechanisms. I'd never heard of the latter. Does anyone use it? Is it new? -Miles -- Next to fried food, the South has suffered most from oratory. -- Walter Hines Page From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dan Nicolaescu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:28:11 -0700 Message-ID: <200710122128.l9CLSC1W022826@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121523.l9CFNpOG008776@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121647.l9CGlpLY011358@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192225428 18611 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2007 21:43:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:43:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 12 23:43:38 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgS4C-0006rW-2h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:29:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgS45-0006Da-Sa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:29:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgS41-0006BO-Vk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:28:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgS3y-00066J-3c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:28:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgS3x-00065z-Uu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:28:53 -0400 Original-Received: from oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu ([128.195.1.41]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgS3x-00039y-Ce for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:28:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mothra.ics.uci.edu (mothra.ics.uci.edu [128.195.6.93]) by oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l9CLSC1W022826; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:28:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri\, 12 Oct 2007 13\:34\:40 -0400") Original-Lines: 14 X-ICS-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ICS-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.44, required 5, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.44) X-ICS-MailScanner-From: dann@mothra.ics.uci.edu X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80746 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > >> You mean API rather than UI, right? > > I mean UI. How does the user request a merge on such a VCS? Using > > "C-x v +" from any VC managed file? Should it then warn that the > > whole tree is getting merged? > > No: it needs to do it from a place where he can specify the right fileset, > i.e. from vc-dired (or maybe from just `dired' depending on how this works). If we go that way, then VC would need a way to know this. It would need order to issue meaningful error messages when the user tries to use C-x v + from a buffer managed by a VCS that does not support per file merging. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <200710120046.l9C0k3Ti018924@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121523.l9CFNpOG008776@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710121647.l9CGlpLY011358@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200710122128.l9CLSC1W022826@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192246612 3078 80.91.229.12 (13 Oct 2007 03:36:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 03:36:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dan Nicolaescu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 13 05:36:41 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IgXns-0000ga-H8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 05:36:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgXnl-0005rd-VM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgXni-0005rY-U7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgXng-0005rM-JR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgXng-0005rJ-E2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:28 -0400 Original-Received: from tomts10.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.54] helo=tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgXng-0002KU-1R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:28 -0400 Original-Received: from pastel.home ([70.55.141.81]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20071013033627.WBSO1733.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@pastel.home> for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:27 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 85EED7F7B; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:36:26 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <200710122128.l9CLSC1W022826@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> (Dan Nicolaescu's message of "Fri\, 12 Oct 2007 14\:28\:11 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 8 (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80760 Archived-At: >> >> You mean API rather than UI, right? >> > I mean UI. How does the user request a merge on such a VCS? Using >> > "C-x v +" from any VC managed file? Should it then warn that the >> > whole tree is getting merged? >> >> No: it needs to do it from a place where he can specify the right fileset, >> i.e. from vc-dired (or maybe from just `dired' depending on how this works). > If we go that way, then VC would need a way to know this. It would > need order to issue meaningful error messages when the user tries to > use C-x v + from a buffer managed by a VCS that does not support per > file merging. Why? The user will do C-x v + from the file buffer, which vc.el will pass on to the backend and the backend will signal an error. I see no problem, Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:41:19 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192257816 22918 80.91.229.12 (13 Oct 2007 06:43:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:43:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 13 08:43:26 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Igaic-0004T2-4W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 08:43:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgaiV-0001Sy-Sj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:43:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Igagb-0000C9-Lm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:41:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IgagZ-0000AG-VI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:41:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IgagZ-0000AA-Pf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:41:19 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgagZ-0006jz-GH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:41:19 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IgagZ-0001Rp-3Z; Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:41:19 -0400 In-reply-to: <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> (message from Miles Bader on Sat, 13 Oct 2007 05:02:46 +0900) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80770 Archived-At: > In the Filesets node, filesets are semipermanent entities > that you define with filesets-add-buffer or other mechanisms. I'd never heard of the latter. Does anyone use it? Is it new? filesets.el was added in 2005. I am not entirely happy with it. It seems that such a feature ought to be better integrated with the rest of Emacs than this actually is. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:42:57 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192399564 2747 80.91.229.12 (14 Oct 2007 22:06:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 15 00:05:53 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IhBaH-00032h-8d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:05:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhBa9-0008Nj-QJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:05:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhBa6-0008Nc-TH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhBa6-0008NQ-Ae for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhBa6-0008NN-7n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman.kiev.sovam.com ([89.162.150.100]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IhBa2-0007ZR-5y; Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:05:02 -0400 Original-Received: from relay01.kiev.sovam.com ([62.64.120.200]) by mailman.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1IhENQ-000ACZ-9j; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:04:12 +0000 Original-Received: from [83.170.232.243] (helo=smtp.svitonline.com) by relay01.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IhBZx-000KwS-MO; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:04:59 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat\, 13 Oct 2007 02\:41\:19 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Scanner-Signature: c2436a487120708c9e0f2b31fdd4cc45 X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: juri@jurta.org X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Header: Not Detected X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 1603 [Oct 14 2007] X-SpamTest-Info: helo_type=3 X-SpamTest-Info: {HEADERS: header Content-Type found without required header Content-Transfer-Encoding} X-SpamTest-Method: none X-SpamTest-Rate: 25 X-SpamTest-Status: Not detected X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: not_detected X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0255], KAS30/Release X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 6.x (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80874 Archived-At: > > In the Filesets node, filesets are semipermanent entities > > that you define with filesets-add-buffer or other mechanisms. > > I'd never heard of the latter. Does anyone use it? Is it new? > > filesets.el was added in 2005. > > I am not entirely happy with it. It seems that such a feature ought > to be better integrated with the rest of Emacs than this actually is. Isn't filesets.el similar by its functionality to the recently proposed project.el? It seems "project" is a better name for it. As for the VC terminology, in contexts where the term "filesets" is ambiguous, it is possible to disambiguate it by using "VC filesets". -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:03:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192466209 16786 80.91.229.12 (15 Oct 2007 16:36:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:36:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 15 18:36:40 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IhSZJ-00021y-BV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:13:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhSZ5-00077p-U2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:13:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhSQ0-00030l-R1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:03:48 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhSPz-0002zF-8z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:03:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhSPz-0002z4-1n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:03:47 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IhSPy-0001Ly-I8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:03:46 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IhSPx-0007rz-Vj; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:03:45 -0400 In-reply-to: <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:42:57 +0300) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80935 Archived-At: Isn't filesets.el similar by its functionality to the recently proposed project.el? Isn't project.el the facility that lets you specify local bindings for a directory? fileset.el does a lot more than that. They are not similar. As for the VC terminology, in contexts where the term "filesets" is ambiguous, it is possible to disambiguate it by using "VC filesets". That is better than what we have now, but still rather clumsy, so it is not a good solution. We need a better one. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:42:49 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192470285 31426 80.91.229.12 (15 Oct 2007 17:44:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:44:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 15 19:44:34 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IhTyS-00051V-LT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:43:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhTyL-0002Nn-Tb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhTyI-0002Ni-TG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhTyH-0002NJ-HV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhTyH-0002NE-Ca for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:17 -0400 Original-Received: from x-132-204-240-91.xtpr.umontreal.ca ([132.204.240.91] helo=ceviche.home) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IhTy7-00068a-Cx; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:43:11 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 125E2B41BB; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:42:49 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon\, 15 Oct 2007 12\:03\:45 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80941 Archived-At: > Isn't filesets.el similar by its functionality to the recently proposed > project.el? > Isn't project.el the facility that lets you specify local bindings for > a directory? > fileset.el does a lot more than that. They are not similar. > As for the VC terminology, in contexts where the term "filesets" is > ambiguous, it is possible to disambiguate it by using "VC filesets". > That is better than what we have now, but still rather clumsy, > so it is not a good solution. We need a better one. I think we don't want to restrict the term "file set" to the specific one corresponding to filesets.el. Instead, we want to keep it as a fairly abstract concept, with uses in filesets and VC and other packages (project.el comes to mind although it doesn't refer to it explicitly). So, I'd distinguish between "file set" as the general concept, and "VC fileset" and (filesets.el's) "Fileset" as specific instantiations. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:37:28 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071015213728.GH11628@thyrsus.com> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192487541 29410 80.91.229.12 (15 Oct 2007 22:32:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:32:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 16 00:32:11 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IhXcJ-0000mH-5x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:36:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhXcC-0002DT-9J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:36:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhXc8-0002Cf-MX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:36:40 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IhXc7-0002CE-34 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:36:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IhXc7-0002CB-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:36:39 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IhXc3-00019B-Uf; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:36:36 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 16B1B38032; Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:37:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80968 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier : > I think we don't want to restrict the term "file set" to the specific one > corresponding to filesets.el. Instead, we want to keep it as a fairly > abstract concept, with uses in filesets and VC and other packages > (project.el comes to mind although it doesn't refer to it explicitly). > > So, I'd distinguish between "file set" as the general concept, and "VC > fileset" and (filesets.el's) "Fileset" as specific instantiations. That is exactly my position. Well put, -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:08:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192738155 12804 80.91.229.12 (18 Oct 2007 20:09:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:09:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 18 22:09:15 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IibgA-0004Fe-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:09:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iibg3-0004FH-Ii for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:09:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IibfJ-0003Dm-8w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:08:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IibfI-0003Bs-Di for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:08:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IibfI-0003Bc-73 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:08:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IibfH-0007da-A8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:08:19 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IibfG-0004A7-QW; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:08:18 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:42:49 -0400) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81161 Archived-At: I think we don't want to restrict the term "file set" to the specific one corresponding to filesets.el. Instead, we want to keep it as a fairly abstract concept, with uses in filesets and VC and other packages (project.el comes to mind although it doesn't refer to it explicitly). So, I'd distinguish between "file set" as the general concept, and "VC fileset" and (filesets.el's) "Fileset" as specific instantiations. In principle it could work to make "file set" a general term, if we have two suitable specific terms for the two specific concepts used in these two features. But that proposal has trouble in the details: if we use the terms "VC fileset" and "fileset", it sounds like the former is a special case of the latter. Can you modify it to solve the problem? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:42:06 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071019214206.GA710@thyrsus.com> References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192830107 24681 80.91.229.12 (19 Oct 2007 21:41:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:41:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 19 23:41:46 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IizbF-0008Tk-F4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 23:41:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iizb8-0002Ts-03 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:41:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Iizau-0002Lx-0O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:41:24 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Iizas-0002LM-Vh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:41:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iizas-0002LB-Gq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:41:22 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Iizai-0001bu-SZ; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:41:13 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 944433807C; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81258 Archived-At: Richard Stallman : > In principle it could work to make "file set" a general term, if we > have two suitable specific terms for the two specific concepts used in > these two features. But that proposal has trouble in the details: > if we use the terms "VC fileset" and "fileset", it sounds like the > former is a special case of the latter. > > Can you modify it to solve the problem? That's easy. The real difference isn't between "used in VC" and elsewhere, it's in the lifetime and source of the fileset. A few additions to the manual can address this. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another VC terminology change? Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:27:20 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071011143005.GA18057@thyrsus.com> <20071011175016.GB8243@thyrsus.com> <87odf4ayop.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87bqb12w32.fsf@jurta.org> <20071019214206.GA710@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192952293 22956 80.91.229.12 (21 Oct 2007 07:38:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 21 09:38:14 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IjVO1-0005q6-Gd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:38:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjVNt-0006ia-9r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:38:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjVNm-0006gH-1I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:37:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjVNi-0006dq-2E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:37:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjVNh-0006dk-Pa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:37:53 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IjVNh-0005Li-GD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:37:53 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IjVDU-0001QU-JI; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:27:20 -0400 In-reply-to: <20071019214206.GA710@thyrsus.com> (esr@thyrsus.com) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81344 Archived-At: But that proposal has trouble in the details: > if we use the terms "VC fileset" and "fileset", it sounds like the > former is a special case of the latter. > > Can you modify it to solve the problem? That's easy. The real difference isn't between "used in VC" and elsewhere, it's in the lifetime and source of the fileset. I think that would be a confusing way to describe the situation. These two "kinds of filesets" are different data types, with totally different commands.