From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oliver Scholz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes to Texinfo DTD Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:05:58 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200310280126.h9S1Q9N16202@f7.net> <20031028105102.GA7330@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> <20031030104238.GA11503@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> <87vfps2x9r.fsf@ID-87814.user.dfncis.de> <878ymfdsx9.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <8765heixvu.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069366400 8607 80.91.224.253 (20 Nov 2003 22:13:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:13:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bob@rattlesnake.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 20 23:13:10 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMx30-0003dL-00 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:13:10 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMx30-0002RC-00 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:13:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AMxvo-0007CB-H2 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:09:48 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AMxvT-0007AE-WB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:09:28 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AMxtj-000629-A9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:08:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AMxtg-00060V-P8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:07:36 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 31334 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Nov 2003 22:06:09 -0000 Original-Received: from dialin-145-254-194-041.arcor-ip.net (EHLO HERMES) (145.254.194.41) by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 20 Nov 2003 23:06:09 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1497658 Original-To: Nic Ferrier In-Reply-To: <8765heixvu.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> (Nic Ferrier's message of "20 Nov 2003 20:32:53 +0000") X-Attribution: os X-Face: "HgH2sgK|bfH$; PiOJI6|qUCf.ve<51_Od(%ynHr?=>znn#~#oS>",F%B8&\vus),2AsPYb -n>PgddtGEn}s7kH?7kH{P_~vu?]OvVN^qD(L)>G^gDCl(U9n{:d>'DkilN!_K"eNzjrtI4Ya6; Td% IZGMbJ{lawG+'J>QXPZD&TwWU@^~A}f^zAb[Ru;CT(UA]c& User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/22.0.0 (windows-nt) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17985 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17985 Nic Ferrier writes: > Oliver Scholz writes: [...] >> I take that to mean: to write an entirely new program that does the >> same job as the current standalone reader, but renders XML. I fail to >> see the benefit. [...] >> More importantly: it would be a *lot* of work and you would need >> somebody who implements it. [...] > It wouldn't be a lot of work. It would be trivial with XSLT. There > are basically 2 ways of doing it: > > > Method 1. [...] > c) write an XSLT stylesheet to turn the XML into HTML with navigation > written in Javascript (so key bindings can be used) > > d) serve the files to Mozilla (or IE or any other XSLT aware browser) > and it will render the XML using the stylesheet > > e) For Emacs/W3 we'd have to write an XSLT processing solution, they > are being worked on I understand. It would be very trivial to write > one using a command line XSLT tool but see method 2. It seems to me that we are talking about entirely different things. I wrote under the assumption that a small and lightweight standalone info reader that works on a console is necessary. It is not that I am particulary fond of that reader. In fact I have never used it before this thread started. It is just that I believe that such a minimalistic reader must exist, because info is the GNU system's primary help and documentation system. Since everybody in this thread seemed to agree that getting the standalone console reader to support a new format would be the hart part, I focused only on this reader. I think your proposal to enable XSLT aware web browsers to serve as full info readers is great. But I also think that there has to be at least one simple, independent solution with minimum requirements that works under all circumstances, including working on a Linux tty. If you can make your solution for Emacs work without a significant performance loss (Emacs/W3 is not the fastest html renderer known to mankind), then this is fine for me, personally. Though, I don't like the idea of making C-h i depend on yet another external program, unless this program ships with the Emacs tarball. [...] >> That would also be a *lot* more work and maybe it could even be worse >> performance-wise than rendering the XML directly in Elisp. You'd have >> the process communication *and* you would still need to parse and >> render some ad hoc made markup from the standalone reader. > > Nah. Just call out to a command line XSLT engine to turn the XML into > HTML. [...] That's still process communication + rendering. Oliver -- Oliver Scholz 30 Brumaire an 212 de la Révolution Taunusstr. 25 Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité! 60329 Frankfurt a. M. http://www.jungdemokratenhessen.de Tel. (069) 97 40 99 42 http://www.jdjl.org