From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Q on frame parameters *border-width Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:01:57 +0200 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1137840362 8932 80.91.229.2 (21 Jan 2006 10:46:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:46:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 21 11:46:00 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F0GFr-0006Ln-7e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:45:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F0GIN-0008AV-LW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 05:48:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1F0Fhq-0004Qx-F7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 05:10:51 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1F0FeM-00040I-Lh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 05:07:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1F0Fbj-0003GR-8x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 05:04:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [192.114.186.66] (helo=romy.inter.net.il) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F0Fg5-00036f-OK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 05:09:02 -0500 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-83-130-209-17.inter.net.il [83.130.209.17]) by romy.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3-GA) with ESMTP id DKF70137 (AUTH halo1); Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:01:51 +0200 (IST) Original-To: "Drew Adams" In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:49351 Archived-At: > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:20:54 -0800 > > 1. Wrt `border-width': > > When I try this, I get an error, "Cannot change the border width of a > window": > > (modify-frame-parameters (selected-frame) '((border-width . 20))) > > So, think I, perhaps you cannot change this parameter for an existing frame, > but perhaps you can set it for `default-frame-alist' and it will then affect > future frames. No such luck either. In fact, you cannot change this for _any_ window. At least on X, I think this parameter is under control of the window manager. But even if I'm wrong, it looks like no one has written code to handle this, on any windowing system. > Both the doc string and the error message speak of the "window" border, so I > guess this is a frame parameter that affects the border of each window in > the frame. Is that right? Just where is the window border? I don't know how to explain this better than the manual does. Each frame has a border--do you know what that border is? If not, perhaps your problem is not what border-width is, but what is the border. With typical X window managers this border is clearly visible, because it has a 3D appearance that makes it stand out. On MS-Windows, this is less visible, but you should still be able to see a narrow 2-pixel-wide strip between the outer edge of the Emacs frame and the parts of the frame that Emacs displays: the fringe at the left side, the title bar's background color on the top side, etc. > If not, if it is about a frame border, then the doc string and error > message should say "frame", not "window". Maybe, I don't know. The confusion between ``window'' and ``frame'' is not a simple one. The parameter is for frames, not for windows. > What does this parameter do? Setting it doesn't seem to do anything, on > Windows XP at least (Emacs 20 or 22). Shouldn't the doc explain the > parameter a little more? I think this parameter exists so that one could compute the actual size of the frame. > 2. Wrt `internal-border-width': > > The only difference in this parameter's name and that of the previous > parameter is "internal-". Does this mean that this too applies to Emacs > window borders (whatever they are) and not to frame borders? No, the manual says it explicitly: this is the distance between the border and the text area of the Emacs display. > Setting `internal-border-width' actually does change something, but it > appears to be the internal _frame_ border, not a border around each window. It _is_ the frame border. > The `internal-border-width' does not appear to be the distance between text > and border, if the border when fringe is present - in that case, it is the > distance between the fringe and the border. Yes.