From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:27:48 +0300 Message-ID: References: <004a01c8a1a0$7215cdd0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <878wz9btq8.fsf@jurta.org> <85fxthy4qp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87hcdxz9zr.fsf_-_@jurta.org> <87ve2cfk9x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200804201931.m3KJVO4X008875@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <858wz8ux2w.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <000e01c8a32a$5949ecb0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208727000 23927 80.91.229.12 (20 Apr 2008 21:30:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:30:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 20 23:30:34 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jnh7J-0004n3-23 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:30:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnh6d-0007Ik-QE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:29:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnh5p-0006zL-5k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:29:01 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnh5o-0006yy-Bh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:29:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jnh5o-0006yt-68 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:29:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout7.012.net.il ([84.95.2.19]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jnh5g-0001nL-KT; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:28:52 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([80.230.59.104]) by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0JZN0018E6U2FUA0@i-mtaout7.012.net.il>; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:10:51 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <000e01c8a32a$5949ecb0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95556 Archived-At: > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:06:05 -0700 > Cc: 'Juri Linkov' , 'Chong Yidong' , > emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Stefan Monnier' , > rms@gnu.org > > How about starting with delete-selection-mode (regardless of whether it would > become the default behavior - let's assume not, here), and trying to improve it > so that it plays better with your use cases? I think the only way to have the feature and leave everyone mildly happy is to separate the ``deletable'' selection from the normal Emacs region. That is, introduce a new notion, let's call it ``selection'', that is a portion of text which is defined by dragging the mouse or moving the cursor with the Shift key pressed. Let then this ``selection'' be deleted as in other GUI apps. This is what newcomers expect, they don't know about the region, so won't expect it to behave like ``selection''. Keeping our hands off the region will avoid the risk of infuriating long time Emacs users. It will also avoid the need to produce some kind of heuristics for figuring out issues like this one: > For example, you say that you don't want to delete the active region sometimes > when you type text. Never? Sometimes? When? Maybe you can characterize the use > cases better (to yourself at least). I feel that any such heuristics, even if we succeed in coming up with it, will be a hopelessly fragile pile of twisted little passages all alike, that will break on us all the time and cause infinite maintenance headaches.