From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: SachaC-news Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 23:33:54 +0100 Message-ID: References: <83zfxq182m.fsf@gnu.org> <3a6ed189-a56f-4249-9616-047724bc979a@alphapapa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20684"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, cnngimenez@disroot.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adam Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 31 23:34:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rK4OT-00057L-Hd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 31 Dec 2023 23:34:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rK4Ni-00055l-9y; Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:34:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rK4Ng-000548-IY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:34:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rK4Ne-0002mA-IX; Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:34:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1704062034; x=1704666834; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=ADtnKHy9tJyum2F91lnKp1oBPgtNOpjA1CNOyy4LRSU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To: References; b=jjbRy3w7g8BsVcC15fAkoSCbCi3owqT4Zz9M4dEVDG4AguAJqu8JR6xHrzP5crXi eMnmWttY6FOB/2TRuCcf9s7rwYbMHZKKCjuglIX/+cqCmi1/IXRRGQPgs5AM1q/gp LbpdvVdyM6wMq7lagi5RLOTClzFkRrInzFekPEOf6myaiHExXQvg1UcHrLx2WO0CK lWOvlJPcY9577qfwiDZOs7vd6m1LgNaywFX+1JdC5HYZAs+M6DsttBN60DfgXGmW3 LsF2IhQVNQ6sNedf1BLVULcso3yHRxLlbZvEzs9XVa9kV3iQsNF2lamM+ysijO4zo q3oDg3gVnHm4OsR7Dg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [141.8.81.247] ([141.8.81.247]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs14.server.lan [172.19.170.182]) (via HTTP); Sun, 31 Dec 2023 23:33:54 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <3a6ed189-a56f-4249-9616-047724bc979a@alphapapa.net> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:/D8rSYpPb+cBjc+za3VOvQ2tNBR/NPJTeYPg4bi2p6cZsWYiezF0USObEtpEpFio+nVQk lPAAV4yDqNERC/lai4oIkHDBZ8tdfk71ddYMDb4c7KpxllujdsXJA2+HOHh8qng61/IAlvUh5eYu qeuGRXxyKuBzSwv6OSdedb/VMUAMzdckLUKY1eTOEYKVYrpo1iRNlPhfdyXkbE0Zhf/4wAEZsYDe dGfybBlxhar+vPE6eTO6a2SS+DzLD5P9U6Z8NIfbA/RPJ1U3oXCvmqqbgMA4k+EIt6mp7XC+J8tt IE= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:2NakC2wvo6c=;uxFS0cmLokueywoRgHGMO2b4TPo FLjPHo05pf2+FLI2iXU09tffAv7N53cVD7jF4ofM0JOixz8IfyQqTwpUBjwYFJ+ZJb4gQ0hcj IF4iEZSJwgJUmBBsmupz9mrzDvHlI1rS3+MvDLcgYewZ9bhvbBL9zb1zSCnZApH9ctUUPASdx VjrKaqb7p9lq+o/22fWDlL36t16ZDKlFzutuerD60+5AiT+cUozOt9CGcIBoVDOfsKX/2PNb9 6axHHIYKqeefJw5/1eNVYYbh+GfJjsO4s4aLBoZNNVqz1xWGf9x9fEp7cbQZ6Dvw3cB6f3XS0 7rPWiG09+EZMHXNGazip2VEydvM//JBBCNKFgc/y9527hE8RzwqVUILjt8kIX7qgd7UoXG66Z 5U/4GDHNBs41n2WV+C0ERjOm8QQWZxgisJBIX7a7ecTcH7JWGhdVDM/6kg4E3aV+KGcM0mLIU dJ8u1M1/+3VesHAHCmULCAbvDrtp1ZxHtT5HskGdMclEDWQpbi0PMdax8Diiwv5sqSX2h3Gat q1A8JNXrmzN3+4LHvtGPqm30J+Z3j63OOrFF0gqOLLWwkpsy7116DG1oy6vHrYvZRcWZ/oyJK ZQn3ntddRlVp0aHfFqHnV7Y3zuU8g080BjZNDdKyiHI7W1CXKlnFvxdFc2+4wCifZmSfYWTJ/ RJ589KrXLmizRQCujxpqNQlwQ2rSZwrLbgIIfh0/tMJhidvwxEbzn35P2yMWwOtmNXT1XI9RL sGYGvJnFdQxO6w0HqCDn3+NDUaWLRg7nfBA4RBIzSGs74tLNqsI+AJM+loCIkhEfFgdzr5FV Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314403 Archived-At: > Sent: Monday, January 01, 2024 at 9:36 AM > From: "Adam Porter" > To: "Eli Zaretskii" > Cc: rms@gnu.org, cnngimenez@disroot.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: SachaC-news > > On 12/31/23 13:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2023 12:13:24 -0600 > >> Cc: cnngimenez@disroot.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > >> From: Adam Porter > >> > >>> Org format is text with its own kind of markup -- it is not plain te= xt. > >> > >> Many users would disagree. > > > > How can users disagree with something that is a plain fact? > > A fact? Org's own web site, as I said, proclaims, "Your life in plain > text." It would seem there is at least room for interpretation. > > >> If you look up promotional and educational > >> content about Org, you'll find that cited as one of its chief benefit= s: > >> that it's essentially plain text. > > > > "Essentially plain text" means it's not plain text. > > What is "plain text"? Is the following block "plain text"? > > To-do list: > > - Walk dog > - Feed cat > - Reply to email > > I would say so, as I've written many such lists in ".txt" files before I > discovered Org mode, yet it has Org syntax that would cause it to be > parsed as a paragraph followed by a bulleted list. If it is not "plain > text," then what would make it so? Shall we remove the hyphens? > > To-do list: > > Walk dog > Feed cat > Reply to email > > Is that now "plain text"? Does that now qualify it for inclusion in an > Emacs package since it technically lacks Org syntax? (Or does it? Org > will parse that block as two paragraphs of Org-formatted text.) Is it > now easier to read outside of org-mode's font-locking? > > > Do you deny that Org files have their own specialized markup? Because > > that's all that Richard said above. If you do agree that Org has its > > own markup, then where are you going with your objections and > > arguments? > > He said that the package in question should have the output of one of > its commands changed to not output Org syntax. With Org being > "essentially" plain text, and intended to be readable as plain-text in > any software, without any special fontification, that raises the > question of what would be changed to qualify the command's output as > non-Org "plain text", and what the benefit would be to the user. Here we are discussing plain text in the context of Modern English. Consider the case of French, with four diacritics, two ligatures and the cedilla. Should a document written in french be considered as plain text ? The answer is yes. We should start considering plain text as text in the normal language, including diacritics, ligatures and other marks that go beyond the basic Latin Alphabet. I do not see any problem with having non-plain text. Org has evolved, and can see good reasons for org-files to include - for instance - arrow marks= . If the textual information written in the user's normal language shows up = intact, the corresponding org file should be considered plain-text.