From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 11:23:13 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <871q33rj7v.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16882"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 05 11:23:59 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1satwc-0004EC-Ci for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 11:23:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1satw8-0004RZ-3A; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 05:23:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1satw3-0004R6-Sn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 05:23:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1satw1-0002u4-Ne for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2024 05:23:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1722849794; x=1723454594; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=0KplGNsXqXiFUrqmJcGR9aDd6Ff5iLt5mr3yW2iELug=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=ZzFiAO/j+lmFefkqE/GU6cUfdlNMoHiuSGV+2pCA6hb2AZGAoI8Z8TXGlIyf0AaM lkAd2GaITCxXPLW453PE5TcTySnXmZPpxXt3Gn+IlRkt08rpIVRloRqTD9W6Jo/cQ T9IlkyLDvtE8IdJQfZIDbg5ijoNkCIWlMTpjVdTDl/ktWvh3MyUg2eyJ19j2v6UXR CMkEgIcmQxbGuscW/M5ioIDkaVw7UrrUmkXK61PYxOmJJtrbuK5fE+oUcH7MgfCj1 H6DPSz62O6ZBQgysMwy9LnHYd3ZzGCRdO2Ht8wsyAOmsy6msqTaS8rsGLWFqXTqzH b+kOyvqmn+46CuJytw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [92.251.79.197] ([92.251.79.197]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs04.server.lan [172.19.170.170]) (via HTTP); Mon, 5 Aug 2024 11:23:13 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <871q33rj7v.fsf@dataswamp.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:2ksSozkZ1u9acR7S788a0lNcWu0i8PQ+k3/Lz1++Apv8oA2dcHBeFwAfK32pHrF7FBLUl Xds0ITYC8yivO89+psyFHYPrQrFWRWglvpshI9LWYfyH1w/Emo6r3n5BLTCSH/kUeI7UCDoUZ7yr zIX3vZFczGUUEALMI57tJvV/Y5MW3rPB3kZmUDESoKTQlY9LrWdsJk6aQmEvUZrlqMndKcTRtAeO aDk5B8+sPRbe+qHgFr7rEwK57OITO/LPscKZDsMr2f1/dJaIUffV7x881VCkh9mJC312P3meLNY7 mw= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:WA7Q0vPysB8=;Dfe7QuQUOqpGd+F7EHsXIRQ3sAO WDU/nMICLWFhwvDmfwaT26Dt18SonsbE2OT4Y8Y/G0KzMYWVYF6cKnqwLUDqzSHnKLefrwRe6 IZsGm+brmi+4sIbYYIQbc38ACR7Jo0xRUy4G8+fafNcOkwKxg9Jj9r26F6jTDDVI65i36QG5F HB3S/vbNSZruRv6S+tFYt+rPhAuFMhfSi2N/k5TcR28utoh8bxVrHPJJTbN6PzPZF/dpLIICS GW7qZhv1r/OopKkHSzReV+YSLXCyFG/PHzy2wqnxJ1y3fRmpIxn2TID1oQN/dmDZ8oLqm+lAv FeXkhMBMnDQHchjJQq6Cujz5CnsIHDZ41DgYRTqcYBaZbfVY8sJtleO538FD53vHqdG5EbDiY ILhV7+jLlvjmIWzYAwi3tEmTZkB5wqfn7hlfMlhkJAti603U2Z32BiVD7ylnNGHF9DO2MK/yp nSB4FQ5pGbgIN2xWU/bfZExpx5Y8EnUOk/Q9OtOD2ha3KlKonG1aC1fXC8DfNVcxsTbb2dm1K /oFwEQdeOYJ1x7Qh5pMYcweeqSty6t86BzADOBBK81OEKFrtekAmtQCs5G6IltFMhKWXUVwFW SDo5I04uumhtfmCJn94IB23/hwycxGNVuLgdgK15RbF99D22ny3Saa34IAbDw53tYu9xHKz4y h53XYMaY+i+/suz3yNQ7194tGKh8MxB7eSv1BKOmig== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322353 Archived-At: > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2024 at 10:55 AM > From: "Emanuel Berg" > To: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other > > Jeremy Bryant wrote: > > > Lisp is the most powerful and elegant of programming > > languages. If you want to see how powerful and elegant > > a programming language can be, you need to learn Lisp. > > It will give you standard for measuring other languages. It all depends on the specific work one is doing. In some instances the indented style and excessive use of () makes working with lisp code harder than other languages. > Ah, I don't know, that kind of boasting. Powerful and elegant > are both immeasurable things, well, maybe in electrical > engineering one can measure it. > > > Calling Emacs Lisp "python-like" is derogatory to Emacs > > Lisp. Python has some of the characteristics that make Lisp > > superior, but not all of them. Many people are being forced to use Python especially in many university graduate schools. Lisp has always been a choice. I have no problem with Python. But many graduate schools whose main aim i= s getting as many graduates as they can and publishing as many papers as the= y can, have been using Python in ways intended to maximize task completion t= ime, to the detriment of everything else. In other words, education for these graduants has educated them out of education. The best education one can = get today is by self discovery. Schools are not the way. > Okay, then everyone should know this is a controversial thing > to say. No one, or very few, would recommend Emacs Lisp as an > alternative to Python 2024. There is nothing controversial, one simple has to see how things are in specific situations. > It will sounds like we are a bunch of fanatics boasting from > our own echo chamber were, inside it, we all are fantastic and > high on Lisp. > > Lisp's superiority is a myth. > > To me it is more like a drug :) The designers of Lisp had to deal with much more things. Hence its design= has been very well thought out by extremely good designers. Today there are m= any programmers, but good system designers are rare despite the increase in sy= stematic education strategies. > -- > underground experts united > https://dataswamp.org/~incal > > >