From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2020 13:22:15 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <877dpjp30g.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87zh2fnmwq.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27110"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ghe@sdf.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 22 13:23:22 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1krghF-0006wQ-CY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 13:23:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43348 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krghE-0001xQ-E8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 07:23:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55640) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krggF-00015b-IH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 07:22:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:60649) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1krggD-0007JO-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 07:22:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608639735; bh=S7zNY8BbvQ507Mse0dRkkkB6OF/8WkSuu5KvIcoN+PQ=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=PRCnGZpFJXKTquOkMhmxf7go9BPvjmaPEloq2KEmyWitxcQNSPoJftr6S3xR6nfeh w3hEeJ0+lYbjxO2SXnf/wHAdxI79uPlYk7M3d3u+9vdd52lVB+nUoieRnFkGSOLF7U oMUhH4gqPKRnT+2MQ1X+Fnf5GennT8smXssSHHEw= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs10.server.lan [172.19.170.178]) (via HTTP); Tue, 22 Dec 2020 13:22:15 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:0g6x0TzBh9p+k/BN6dKooMjaxmzzMlz0JCC37PGMjgHSNyjayzd8RTDzgadQKfzj9V8Mu Lgd+I1ELc9d/bA+6oNrQd29r+OTmns3jmbPKJ2yvjSToC3saKqdjQkHIzQcXaiBzyhPuZdktCtcC z8cUxi1/tZWITCSpIxkRDKGfgj59uLSYypzkjUV0dcD9ToxiTGD7rAgrrFZQqmLbjnsXZYAbCsxz 2AFGdTHU8njAu0w7a192qwYbED3fs2N0gJcfwKvPT5CzQDJQJ4ZEW7h0ZHSn9qMuyJQ+ekk9qnuJ Ok= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:giTLpo+DDsc=:cAqr42Xdgbn+1IXKO1E3P2 OvfnanMcGuSYyeT0lZwyKE+vjOy3svxZKB1B12r0Dqm2024N5fvhjK+Dye8I3zMmNMPUoX86X kSgW7z2q/AIEvCTqGdOopJlWV3Xr82dcp9ajSCkonsQG27+ViYk5Vx0WVK72aE/9W9zXtzmi1 2Xm50RpGV5LIN7494aoo1dR8LvlPaJ/tfWAuciQzdhBUKLARWRyJUCCioulIfDdwAkjdbI3pP HKKGG71NiYxRFbn3GYR2vHQFqs1B7SFZ28CFO7wGwvZRHEDZKsXBuDhqOGUFcEzRKTUwJfSme 5uBCGDY6dEO3it2a1ZVGNKcHCBS67mKhVRHVJ627z/MxggnUoVya3bqDOzJzgscqWj1miweBZ bPlPH9CoCDOyHf1DiMFubPoeVH8YfcKpaFBvyvkmHGVp0AfOgqJBr3qoNFLa/iTKRlGtafdLE f7dyo2PqVUO8yFYR1MOAIdjMy0TaB4qmrDvsL0z8UWdrj4s5Ab+T8VykMGkEzEvfWh1/vPCxA YUeTbli80uzZOL1yX53XOrqsPB3bxEXWfudIHhUfkX7UzeFTBNzeTRyvRp3ayvcPF0SGlnOjv JNj4b6oMCjtzo= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.21; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261481 Archived-At: That was a criticism on using weighting to account for missing data. Weig= hting is customarily used to reduce noise levels or as a sparsity constraint. One = possibility would be a live survey (on the emacs website, a mailing list, ...). Apolo= gies if the comment was too harsh. The basic criticism has been that it favoured = experienced users. Another way is to have multiple surveys based on emacs use experie= nce, and then normalise the results between the different experience levels. In that wa= y things won't get skewed. I would think that if there are competing views, we must not favour one or= the other, but consider them equally valid. It would then be simply a question of pr= iority or perhaps measured on difficulty. There is use for toolbars and should not = be discounted. Another way is to isolate functionality so those who want to use then can = install a package. Ultimately, it is for the maintainers and contributors to decide. There a= re many books on statistical inference. A popular technique is to divide the data into gr= oups followed by a data representation strategy based on the most significant clusters. On= e can also study correlations between groups as being statistically significant. > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 4:28 PM > From: "Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions." > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > > Christopher Dimech: > > > > Shitty data obtained without care, attention, and skill is useless dat= a. > > Forget the weighting! > > > > As the saying goes: "Criticism is easy, and art is difficult." Could yo= u > please create and conduct a "good" survey, according to your criteria of > "good"? Or at least enlighten us, poor mortals, and explain what should > have been done, and how? > >