From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: as for Calc and the math library Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 19:27:12 +0200 Message-ID: References: <864j7qhup6.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5hi0yts.fsf@valhala.localdomain> <86y152ge0b.fsf@gnu.org> <86jzgjfwqp.fsf@gnu.org> <87sev78arx.fsf@gmail.com> <86le0z89u1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o75v87n1.fsf@gmail.com> <86frr786k7.fsf@gnu.org> <861q2q8e18.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25695"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: arthur miller , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 18 19:50:28 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sfk2s-0006RK-Bm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 19:50:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfk2J-0005bG-LX; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:49:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfjgb-0002Ff-28 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:27:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfjgY-0003TR-S5; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:27:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1724002032; x=1724606832; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=JjYsvhR4tIgYDzCUIak8qT6AnTjZvwNkAxLm4GD2CMU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=fvdACptGoAMr60nUWkUwmqjF/eNKRreXJHpnuVio4oZZfPbnZeyAWCiVwE2GT1HT IkBnOU3noplj7yme+vdIbPdk8dODAfwKeJCgiYgz7K0n01CPrQkDjKuLWqPhnT/+8 a+7luqlNu45RzSdl172jC1+UxlyBHETtguOWVtXH+mqNPmJiGwTXlbrOQ9FPkTmV2 E0rpeDZL3YiGUW020Exp3NHX5k29l9pkMst6j0cax+PttEkdXtdlzw0f88NHhxca9 hbq4NViPyfN1+r4ScPq3MGO6oL/sKoY2Dyoq25FuBo7R0AAGZK4j4pm4slQvINZF6 PwnkznJ2cPtkbJNVbw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [92.251.79.197] ([92.251.79.197]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs03.server.lan [172.19.170.169]) (via HTTP); Sun, 18 Aug 2024 19:27:12 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:4ERsh+FdpCNl1ziUi6rLvafOE9o6/BB3c2RmuET6vGfzR8vPm0LM00lMYF1M53e3sAmae 6stsFKJ3JUTc9qSnpjvMAnhUx/sq5t0F23IFmaX7LwmAZgN6NG7YlsdDdv7lysVUBSYuDApvdf4b Eh3J3qdb6n9lG6cER1RWULK7hWyomokTwPEe5zCmIxaq2zIox4h4PzoN6gdJhcovMCIi2w1n7uvb 8lEgFqRlGOEM32YQgkWR7CFj7ZHak1D6o4h8cCvxdTZDGnbuQ+JQ6sqHXeOb/Hb5TqtCr8psQ8OD pw= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:wRs0DD1AFuA=;yDCm7Vq3t26hqZrttzga1JOM72a L60LIdVZXWh7k6EEYRQCzWxweaXP0Vx68if69NysgoG88LHNy8xgGbZT/dgU3O7hg8uxxNY2U v7m2HunnzFkFt9rm1vx8C0uT0lzPu1zEYz95699YbLXyPApMcIDOOCTdQtCpx2gd070j0dxwi yg0ymIDSJF9Uol3W2uT8+8f8xWx65NvbqfTKrI5wVwo8e+JXKxRervLSLPylvhTXssVu8/3/A FPwAeOXaNB+IR/JkIkMNfchE8zhH9qSAfcSO/TMvZKqB3nVhLef0udjtnIZQ1sI1prHzszmrY f3hbzUXCs2sWi+QqtLci06WeNNDm/dh5PmBjhNfIpDdqgn3bzbCDTCL09NbHpkPxiUu/x5Xlu VQ2HNrRQrI7AHUp8K1gVPN8E/c5+b+MjRgp9DTWZhL/YM2eEpMAYpKn5uRT3GuXuIH3SgZ0f0 v1wA3ODtoF9lffpafj6skO3hOaHUYzxlEtm/UXkV8QPe2ItFjYRv/0bI7OFYPbLiObixwqCR+ 5YPbIxEmFkd19aXjK8cu4cLz7DY0LKRkPaeF4jUMKbaxqwH9aoM9LyCp/FEOigEu2no+nJzJL SjIUo4XA7K/qTUA0T9TE554QAxS1zYBpEmKc1Ii9ykIG0Gy+7dKRiXVKvBMq/WBSH473RwlBg PMVSpYfTwUwOZGBQUyJdP3Yf0cLxPOfnHMH2tT07JQ== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:49:45 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322898 Archived-At: > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2024 at 4:38 AM > From: "Richard Stallman" > To: "arthur miller" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: as for Calc and the math library > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > >No. What we need is the declaration _by_the_library_ being loaded > > >that it complies. It is not an agreement between Emacs and the > > >library, it's a _requirement_ on our part that only the library its= elf > > >can fulfill. > > > I have seen your previous answers to others, and I do understand > > the point you make, but I think the argument fails because a > > module can be just a proxy to a non-free library. If I can put it > > in other words, I wonder if it is a "false sense of security", > > because it is a guarantee by the person who writes the C module, > > not the 3rd party library they link to. Of course they are > > violating the license if they link to a non-free library, but that > > we are agreeing about we can't prevent. > > You're right, and this is a possible problem, but it raises a real > copyleft compliance issue only in a specific kind of occasion: when > someone writes such an intermediary module that loads a nonfree > library, _and distributes that intermediary module_ for such use. > > Just writing such an intermediary module and using it oneself does not > raise a copyleft compliance issue, because GPLv3 says one can make any > sort of modificatoin and use it privately -- even actually copying in > nonfree code. Where the copyleft requirement comes into pkay is for > making a modified version and distributing it to others. > > So it could be good to keep an eye on the modules that people are > releasing, to make sure they do not load in other nonfree code. > If they do, the FSF should tell their distributors to stop. > > Given this situation, a spcial label as a flag for "this library is > free" might be useful, We just have to remember taht such a flag label > is not proof of anything. Its presence is only a statement (which can > be false) of intent that the module be entirely GPL3-compatible free > code and that it link in only GPL3-compatible other modules. Emacs could recommend and endorse specific libraries without judging or comparing them based on any criterion other than freedom. As is done with the Free GNU/Linux Distributions. Emacs itself could report a flag when someone uses such libraries, rather than having the libraries themselves report the information to the editor. However GPL Compliance would be too restrictive. Knowing a library is free should be enough. This way users would know what they are doing without harm.