From: Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com>
To: Daniel Radetsky <dradetsky@gmail.com>
Cc: Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net>, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: My resignation from Emacs development
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2024 20:51:58 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <trinity-ab660a19-f454-4a88-8677-1c87b095efef-1732650718346@3c-app-mailcom-bs09> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <lpokbgz6eyheat6zs4mbpos7rcqmzrftdoqwua5ulacc32vdk2@lcls5brqinzb>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2024 at 7:01 AM
> From: "Daniel Radetsky" <dradetsky@gmail.com>
> To: "Adam Porter" <adam@alphapapa.net>
> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 11:35:35PM -0600, Adam Porter wrote:
> > But it is not okay for you to blame Stefan for your decision to leave.
>
> I disagree. If he chooses to leave, and the reason for this
> choice is Stefan's behavior or decisions, then blaming
> Stefan seems straightforwardly informative.
In the matter of blaming maintainers for decisions - whether directly or
indirectly - the question of whether maintainers should be allowed to
break their own rules is critical. A compelling case exists that they
should. Strict adherence to lengthy review periods or
consensus-building processes is often impractical, especially in
situations where only maintainers possess the necessary expertise to
advance the program.
Maintainers breaking their own rules represents a pragmatic approach,
prioritizing progress and functionality over rigid adherence to dogmatic
processes. This flexibility ensures that the project continues to evolve
and adapt to its challenges.
That said, while maintainers must retain the ability to make such
decisions - even if they sometimes result in dissent or the departure of
contributors - there is a clear responsibility to avoid fostering a
culture of arbitrary rule-breaking. Transparency, accountability, and
judicious use of this authority are essential to maintain the integrity
of the program, especially in a collaborative environment heavily
reliant on contributor involvement.
> I'm not as much of a veteran of this list as some of you,
> and my few interactions with Stefan have been positive. So I
> can't really speak to who's in the right and don't think I
> should. But it's broadly better to have information about
> what's going on and what decisions are being made and how
> everyone feels about those decisions than to not have this
> information.
>
> Basically, if Stefan made a decisions, and this made Alan so
> unhappy that he wants to leave, this is something everyone
> should know. Sometimes this is the price of a decision. We
> need to know the price to make informed choices.
>
> I'm not accusing you of this specifically, but it seems like
> in situations like this there's a desire to make the
> situation black and white. Either Stefan made a bad decision
> which ought to be reversed, and the fact that it is not
> being reversed would justify Alan leaving, or Alan is being
> unreasonable and thus his decision to leave is a foregone
> conclusion being unfairly blamed on Stefan. Thus if we don't
> want to reverse Stefan's decision, we must believe that Alan
> is being unreasonable.
>
> But it's also possible that e.g. Stefan made a good decision
> in the big picture, but this was locally problematic for
> Alan. And even though we prefer Stefan's good decision, we
> prefer a worse decision with the benefit of Alan's continued
> contribution than the alternative. Or maybe not, but this is
> why we want to surface the costs of decisions. It's better
> than pretending that hard decisions don't need to be made,
> and that the true costs of those decisions are just somebody
> being unreasonable and thus not worth counting on the "cost"
> side of the ledger.
>
> If Alan isn't happy with Stefan's decision then even if we
> think it was overall a good decision, this doesn't mean we
> have to be unhappy with Alan. We can just ask ourselves if
> the whole thing is worth it. Or rather, the rest of you can
> ask it; I don't have an opinion on the specifics.
>
> --dmr
>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-11-26 19:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 144+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-11-20 15:13 My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-20 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-20 16:23 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 6:22 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 10:05 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 11:23 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 11:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 10:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 12:26 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-20 16:42 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-20 17:04 ` tomas
2024-11-20 21:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-11-21 2:28 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-21 12:34 ` Tree-sitter maturity (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Peter Oliver
2024-11-23 13:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-24 2:10 ` Tree-sitter maturity Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <67428b3d.c80a0220.2f3036.adbdSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-17 22:11 ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-18 13:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-19 1:40 ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-19 8:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-20 9:13 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <6765355b.c80a0220.1a6b24.3117SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-20 9:29 ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-23 0:43 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <6768b256.c80a0220.222b1b.64e6SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-24 1:20 ` Yuan Fu
[not found] ` <87frmfxm8y.fsf@>
2024-12-24 4:52 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-24 12:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-24 21:31 ` Xiyue Deng
2024-12-26 4:30 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-27 10:54 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-27 13:46 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-27 14:19 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 14:24 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-27 14:57 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 15:02 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-27 15:05 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-27 15:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-27 15:37 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-27 14:11 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 15:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-27 18:29 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-12-26 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-26 7:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-19 12:23 ` Peter Oliver
2024-12-19 12:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-19 13:15 ` Vincenzo Pupillo
2024-12-20 8:59 ` Björn Bidar
2024-11-21 13:01 ` My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 13:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 14:29 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-22 0:01 ` Po Lu
2024-11-22 7:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 8:14 ` Robert Pluim
2024-11-22 8:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 23:59 ` Po Lu
2024-11-23 6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 16:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 5:35 ` Adam Porter
2024-11-22 7:24 ` Madhu
2024-11-22 8:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 9:26 ` Madhu
2024-11-22 12:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 12:40 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 13:06 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 13:39 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-25 4:28 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-26 17:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-13 4:35 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-15 15:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-15 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-15 20:43 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-19 4:22 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-19 8:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 22:18 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-11-22 10:57 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 23:19 ` Adam Porter
2024-11-26 19:01 ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-26 19:51 ` Christopher Dimech [this message]
2024-11-27 2:18 ` Adam Porter
2024-11-27 9:36 ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-27 9:59 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-30 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-30 7:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 16:22 ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was: My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-30 16:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 21:06 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-01 6:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-03 7:26 ` My resignation from Emacs development Richard Stallman
2024-12-03 13:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 16:21 ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-30 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 21:09 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-01 6:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-01 19:23 ` Drew Adams
2024-12-03 7:25 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-03 13:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-06 4:48 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-02 4:09 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-02 13:04 ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-02 15:32 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-05 5:08 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-05 6:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-02 15:29 ` [External] : Re: Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-27 2:06 ` My resignation from Emacs development Adam Porter
2024-11-27 9:17 ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-22 15:36 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 17:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-23 23:43 ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2024-11-23 6:10 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-23 7:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 11:06 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-23 11:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 12:48 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-23 23:59 ` Adam Porter
2024-12-01 3:50 ` Sean Whitton
2024-12-01 6:19 ` tomas
2024-11-24 18:12 ` Suhail Singh
2024-11-26 4:56 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-26 7:38 ` Suhail Singh
2024-11-21 5:59 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-22 11:36 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 11:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 10:36 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-23 11:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 13:39 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-11-21 19:01 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-21 19:19 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 19:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 19:40 ` Jim Porter
2024-11-24 4:35 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-21 23:57 ` Po Lu
2024-11-22 17:26 ` On committing significant and/or controversial changes (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Ihor Radchenko
2024-11-22 17:47 ` Ship Mints
2024-11-22 19:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-24 2:35 ` On committing significant and/or controversial changes Björn Bidar
2024-11-24 4:41 ` Adam Porter
2024-11-30 2:16 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87ttbx73zu.fsf@>
2024-11-24 8:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 19:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 6:10 ` My resignation from Emacs development Richard Stallman
2024-11-23 8:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 6:10 ` Richard Stallman
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