From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:51:20 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <838s9zavcx.fsf@gnu.org> <87im92nmd6.fsf@gnus.org> <83y2hx91u1.fsf@gnu.org> <87czz9enc6.fsf@gmail.com> <83sg858yjr.fsf@gnu.org> <878s9wetdb.fsf@gmail.com> <81fd6785-f9b5-4926-9363-1d63f8672599@default> <5e031a6e-f94e-495e-a8cf-9e9db1544dbe@default> <877dpfcxp3.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35812"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eliz@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Robert Pluim Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 18 09:52:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBUu-0009Ct-JK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:52:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44636 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBUt-0005vW-Li for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 03:52:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53562) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBU2-00054W-6S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 03:51:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:57727) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBTz-0008SF-Si; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 03:51:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608281481; bh=lt/b86iFwYxdY3D7cWXf4x9MTg7o3TsnOOyI1KqUXeo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=SFphTuKO/1aBMVIieAUvIlcKc9rUnv58mLVz236ASKBDzNmhsLkeqtndBEQPmHL6U gzr2MtCbMSVlHt3qchlioCzTprHlNGa0EHtjf4Mw1mg0j6MgWPjenH+TvSJ9Raf8x8 IVvfjsE0QDluGlO8YggLBVqFSSor/jy63VOeP3mg= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs11.server.lan [172.19.170.179]) (via HTTP); Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:51:20 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <877dpfcxp3.fsf@gmail.com> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:5WY9xb9Z/eDs8cdDP8mYz8X3EQOJry9NvihkILPluKcXULbK3X/qrKZecQ14eqbGffpmK iqc+1R7x3yxD2YfdYVXGNeB2l0lJ3pYf4CXzFy037i6XrdaFvx8B5yWcBeVwdmkjkICYt/q5FDB4 BVWcvYGW4wmJWPu+fEwkz7Y6t7WpqyXpTnztBoU69f2FKyw+jcVu2oqbXIHdGeBuk42H6jiy90O3 AEMcIComptLsrdx2qVnLsRNG5lrXm30jfn7LE+rx7+WDE6DqWER6u0CeDn6cPdkM2l+DIZdhIkXC bk= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:z9zbUXJH2fI=:LjLnbFIED9Hw2bwRkgruyT DE9xSfhc7H0SFOHvbmea/R4CoxfSsedD4BHGYdyVUsgXMTxrjYm9+cF4tRNBfJ2IGJUDZ6wRz uCglYMYKiCtbsduYu7F2/Eyk80fyHjvNf7/pk08nfljZo47f7XTQ/x5TTavWH5ZX+C9K+cTPs GsFxA82Bo+0EGF3iY9Kro3Z8K7ryzCLlfWZe0fCEBWsrxsU0WBMqNXly+aPHRUzjJTQ1/hVmD JwBxIF+P98fZEPlP2W3s0AiSa1vXLtC/Xz4osZGIpJgu6+h13pQFFbw7hnu+EZPGsPFHBwQTY 0yzhAHNAuxA/Nz7XspjJR8QW6RGEQBHgSSTg/zVhvSPNhFmnuBg/DMBjAeefKmi98tkD9X+E9 GSUVd+hKlHWdxucD2EqNjs6m7pu78PnIAkCfsQi8UIyVs3XIsF19kb2C2fo/jg9OsH9gtvOhf aNt5Of82ubyIbtP1l3q0mcvU80ggz1hn12UJ7XLNKKhJls2hox4BpDaFPa1sViLWNveXE7mB2 hGYB53q2qgST4ww4615S9HldBaBdiZDIZS6F4DvKPR7KLTKgyOmaUaRYLBxD8dMYiFSCY7/A9 oRRFqEUBpJEBk= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261172 Archived-At: > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 at 9:42 AM > From: "Robert Pluim" > To: "Drew Adams" > Cc: eliz@gnu=2Eorg, rms@gnu=2Eorg, emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > Drew Adams writes: >=20 > >> > > Nothing, except that people have been conditioned to expect that > >> > > changes in options get saved automatically, > >> > I assume you mean _some_ people=2E > >>=20 > >> Would each you please take a deep breath, and respond > >> more kindly from now on? > > > > Would you please take a deep breath? I don't think > > there was anything unkind in either what Robert said > > or in my reply to him=2E > > >=20 > I agree >=20 > > Did you actually read what each of us said? The point > > of my emphasis on "some" was elaborated in the rest of > > what I said, the point of which was that we can easily > > accommodate _both_ expectations of saving automatically > > and saving only on demand=2E > > >=20 > True, although adding an option that says 'save all changes > automatically' will help those who already know how to make > configuration changes permanent=2E I was aiming more for the subset of > people who don=CA=BCt know that yet=2E >=20 > > I don't even see any disagreement in what we were each > > saying=2E Some people _are_ used to automatic saving, > > and we can accommodate that while also giving others > > what they expect (which is what we have now)=2E >=20 > The only disagreement is whether such an option should be enabled by > default for changes made via the menus, I think=2E That depends on whether we would people to experiment without messing up their setup=2E For those who experiment with many problems=2E they run the risk of forgetting how to revert to their previous configuration= =2E Perhaps writing the details in a file, and using that if they want to revert back? =20 > Robert >=20 >