From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs ffi Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 11:05:43 +0200 Message-ID: References: <86jzgjfwqp.fsf@gnu.org> <87sev78arx.fsf@gmail.com> <86le0z89u1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o75v87n1.fsf@gmail.com> <86frr786k7.fsf@gnu.org> <86frr66s0o.fsf@gnu.org> <86a5hb65tv.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7640"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, suhailsingh247@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, nicolas@n16f.net, arthur.miller@live.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 17 12:36:32 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sfGnQ-0001oj-50 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 12:36:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfGmo-00056j-MR; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 06:35:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfFNj-0002tW-3g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 05:05:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfFNd-0001ex-Sv; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 05:05:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1723885543; x=1724490343; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=SO6hHzMBJ6phlWvL9/6tl0t1E00LUvqaOliMnAVxIK0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=qPcZbMZ/fcORCxsyMyPIhLuRd8Dt8M3E7SUQJ5JFDKd2eSSlGVdTHK0kGe5j/N0F OLcGyMaXNEmVklHrjd9qHCgqwZhoYVMGb6YE/LKYf7phDUQq/6NCPaX5lqeLVpRBB yyBdlfsJ/j44fF6WRs9x6CcnLcuOu6rlrRh+dv8F8mTdptNf3Wyw8HNllz4bR5KSJ b2bs9O5KFkDE0RmlVI5kI85rgb4wt1w2mh7GMnIoIUfEklFgMF7CCB9cndd0ju0QN gDn/UjAS29dRW27fTQsZlGJZZBYx+0kp0c98KSp6w9YkqgcvLLkzT/q2XschqlzJz T9PWhZrau32CfHHOdA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [92.251.79.197] ([92.251.79.197]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs04.server.lan [172.19.170.170]) (via HTTP); Sat, 17 Aug 2024 11:05:43 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <86a5hb65tv.fsf@gnu.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VWuBuwM9ZJE5WGNO/f8HkX+imK8A138EZZ1A8/huWsNcNIHip/PR7RgQXh81wIRWJuNoI 9tdVHwl2sEMWYL8St4M/XidL2NVQ/78+Ye2rKNiCR0D+wPb0MEHgXdT0YSsZoP+tCHOmsy7texFj sLOlhNfhoLJiJk/xnPzMJRdmFTBYplCkf41HoVBT72p5Z16Swm3lXjEXZYP1HPAJ9DGBTqQNSvfQ Zx0U+NnzXkljlzxnXE7GzRbb1fhGpwo6SirPf3VWumASTGdryEpMlAoVU1yxg3nE1a3uz52Fm4Ig wM= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:fiMJ+Uu8cjk=;YBMdWIqvjn7lGAqEuUsFK7fJoWD VkJQmcdQ2a6N1idOaBaFUN9ilpyAqUy5bjhGv/J6GpWwGqaG16C/G/9VEl7oEvzA7LQnC6UKv gtAXFtdbGq3uIlwmb4jStyJw2mrqlMGpru3oiJnFwiwiyiLqme4xBMNULECH+0rtmlCoio3tm 6v40m3vZUHLvt8QMAuA9MyCY0G31N6X38vlSM0dCzb0sfsiHq+mPnaxXoPbNcCzj2UnjRipZ3 +zLUYlxwzowPYzgWp2n+Q7PedN4Fm0lGkxVBNr75e1BIty1k89RdJJnTVxMCsAegblEzVyZp0 yDSK3mIZ90ARi61XpJ2TbeUrNCOQioVrbbri2HjhGrTLWmxf/8mt4Nn9Ux+fJNdl4Qq3tz/N6 azromofvRciWetZXP1kv7a/aS0A6TecbQHB3usEGDsSAWWwEAPRklffvPHriQKkQRZDsyxfEX ggG5iAR2JJb0aO1W4T1VXWi44ZoCAFFM4MRfKdBuINPXo+Byo0sXS/1pSMLtWRtvj2aAtGYvw /5P3n7jV4GUfn6FmkxeHZPVhazjaIvGs/hQVCQHlR5rfhTHAuEasYaOImruowvoAoaLylhjFc 6X1ZJ3lrvaVT5/ckDPc3JIV2fqpSbehs/DPRFaRgGDohtwac5hrZrMtOEkwc87zELxo+dLsbj CEQRGOemuRBBi7hJt7PV6FCijs5E5cK3GZ+EHvzqLg== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 06:35:52 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322830 Archived-At: > Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2024 at 6:06 PM > From: "Eli Zaretskii" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: acorallo@gnu=2Eorg, suhailsingh247@gmail=2Ecom, gerd=2Emoellmann@gma= il=2Ecom, nicolas@n16f=2Enet, arthur=2Emiller@live=2Ecom, emacs-devel@gnu= =2Eorg > Subject: Re: Emacs ffi > > > From: Christopher Dimech > > Cc: suhailsingh247@gmail=2Ecom, gerd=2Emoellmann@gmail=2Ecom, nicolas@= n16f=2Enet, > > arthur=2Emiller@live=2Ecom, emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg, Eli Zaretskii > > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 23:21:48 +0200 > >=20 > >=20 > > But this message does not resonate within the minds of the core emacs = maintainers,=20 > > with the trend continuing for many years to come=2E Some believe that= everybody=20 > > in the world doesn=E2=80=99t get it about free software, and even that= everybody in the=20 > > world is a crook and that everybody in the world is trying to steal fr= ee software=20 > > and make bad use of it=2E I do not approve of such ideas=2E Many thi= nk they know > > everything about copyright infringement, but never been thrown out of = court on=20 > > a motion to dismiss=2E =20 > >=20 > > It's always the same, you'll get prima donna maintainers who are at th= e same=20 > > level of priests, who preach a lot about licensing scenarios=2E But h= ave never=20 > > been there, never done it, but preaching a lot about what others can d= o and what=20 > > they cannot do=2E Too much coercion was surely not what we wanted to = apply=2E >=20 > For the umpteenth time: the maintainers are not at liberty to change > the policies they promised to uphold when they were appointed=2E If you > want to discuss these policies, please take this to the proper place=2E >=20 > > As customary I get "Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moder= ator=2E" > > from emacs-devel-owner@gnu=2Eorg=2E I wonder who it is=2E Actually I= wonder why > > I wonder=2E >=20 > You were asked, several times, to take this subject off this list=2E > What did you expect to happen when you keep ignoring those requests, > time and again? =20 I have no illusions about the outcome=2E Decisions will be made regardless= ,=20 but it's important to present the contrarian perspective=2E While I typica= lly=20 refrain from commenting, I do speak on the rare occasions when licensing= =20 is at issue=2E It's about enhancing functionality, not complicating it wi= th=20 licensing hurdles that don't really apply=2E =20 Incorporating a mathematical library into Emacs, based on Calc, is not just feasible but highly beneficial=2E Without all the perceived worries you described=2E You do a great job on the technical aspects, but when you step outside your field and level of specialty, sometimes it is like stepping off a cliff=2E Emacs is a great idea=2E In order to make it appeal to a younger generati= on=20 of people who write programs for sharing, we need to make it simpler to us= e,=20 quicker to understand, and better at doing all the jobs it=E2=80=99s suppo= sed to do=2E=20 And we need to refrain from going unnecessarily to war=2E