From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:47:24 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <86ft46nb1p.fsf@stephe-leake.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="410"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit-Claudel?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stephen Leake Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 20:48:44 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGJQ-000AXg-P8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:48:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47216 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGJP-0008TA-Rq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:48:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60390) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGIH-0007m5-8c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:47:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:58725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpGID-0007nN-M7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:47:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608061644; bh=k2HLehxmWO68B+fbjzBKuZrwVRtxQFlce+Lo7IO0WyM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=JUNQ8XXXgg19DWT3DYgzlvoByIx2BdthPzukHQLgVuF2K2gFV1TabvAe03u1MiX3Z E4xySI44oxHDim7diywlaQW6W9lYH/P0JgV3Z3jBsYw44wOWcdwFN7lc+0U0Gvhf2+ jjb9yKHrDcoxHXmFDmnA/Xx64MP+Hv3YEQx8DIxY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs15.server.lan [172.19.170.183]) (via HTTP); Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:47:24 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <86ft46nb1p.fsf@stephe-leake.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:yT1Lo+R2mwE6xMBJIdmZ9rOWTLV1UdcKaq2dHxgpuAYAWM4R/Paqyumssvf6biuCAFJPg NpLz4pcOD1wjTGQ5odue2KqEBko8EnPl8MIuZb24jqfhKBBCWg+oOdXBGFhJuUdpG/IiPv5kZmPe eUfcmW80RFNloKTl3PdyvWj74rJSFCOsLOvFYn+M7rIWhOmvcFjto3vTRzR8+GyzR3SiLwwSGT18 nyQx+DQoz5XQAsIGw8PxxrjDpVlH5QpObksuznOAxpPXDhrDBrYH6pR34KEH82f8QSRa6WHh1v/9 rQ= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:unwAoDotpws=:ort5vR6HyveD7z3xzbnIXR tyvtrMZe7aglP9xIPkz/ewafN/nHa0nc9j9KB4WlN2trealuxf12J2S7guPM1DlT32EEEp8wq ptJrAiIK1fikFQcltVZK9hOXhvj8SwESV/sBWNO5y4RKuKqBxSiSLyU+Im0qlSt4kdGwq56MM uFxdwYjF8Yhy8XGKLL+nrQaUGWJwRxyyusiLyeonlvrbYC1wXGhydAQn5QvaTVvaHrJ1B/Cg1 SwLUOBT4ljOsamlJFPO1asnkNXbJgOeo+wi9K72sThK/RdyHXanydGGZsEwf3M80Y0JM+LOdn QCCTqLeQ8rC6esnCTdNxl2dT8I5qulURadVaKlqZCg9dDVLApxgbQxlL3NmAgLJLRzc6cw6nS 1SQFueH9P5k7PO4dXqZx6Vgu+XLWJYKCUDZ0LALJ1XyPYzDdqVUizayM6+G6Vd5nKlBpgGxCw 4w3gTW7zFqg5jxzr47sK3LKDTuJPkFBywacPfAelrtx9CHpJ4IRv5E6CS1COzjhkXYlRHac1d sSBBaw3X6/KKWuhabjNlwdzhunZmMYEAN8hOIeweBjGEQNRqyfL15wHiIX2SGXVcK3B8t1mYV W8NjY+DnvYUuo= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260917 Archived-At: Accessibility Tools must function by default=2E Then one can make changes = if they want to=2E How can a person with certain limitations use free software when Emacs Acc= essibility Tools=20 gets disabled by default??? This is a general introspection not only focused on Emacs=2E But Emacs de= velopers must=20 remember these things if they want to be considered as serious people=2E --------------------- Christopher Dimech General Administrator - Naiad Informatics - GNU Project (Geocomputation) - Geophysical Simulation - Geological Subsurface Mapping - Disaster Preparedness and Mitigation - Natural Resource Exploration and Production - Free Software Advocacy > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 8:06 PM > From: "Stephen Leake" > To: "Cl=C3=A9ment Pit-Claudel" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > Cl=C3=A9ment Pit-Claudel writes: >=20 > > On 12/15/20 12:30 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > >> Of 7=2E3K respondents, 5K disable toolbars, which is more than two > >> thirds=2E So perhaps toolbars should default to off? I know toolbar= s > >> were all the rage in the 90s, but that's apparently not the case now= =2E > >>=20 > >> Opinions? > > > > 2=C2=A2: keep them, though with prettier icons=2E It's trivial to disa= ble > > them, but it's not trivial to discover that they exist if they are > > disabled by default=2E >=20 > +1 > =20 > > (FWIW, this is a general philosophy: I think Emacs should ship with a > > lot more stuff enabled by default, maybe with a spartan-mode to revert > > to the current defaults=2E) >=20 > That works for me as well=2E >=20 > Lots of eye candy by default to seduce new users, followed by easy ways > to configure the UI for higher productivity (which is why I turn off the > toolbar; keystrokes are more efficient than mouse movements, and this > gives more screen area for text)=2E >=20 > --=20 > -- Stephe >=20 >