From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs ffi Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 19:18:39 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87sev78arx.fsf@gmail.com> <86le0z89u1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o75v87n1.fsf@gmail.com> <86frr786k7.fsf@gnu.org> <86frr66s0o.fsf@gnu.org> <86a5hb65tv.fsf@gnu.org> <86cym7w7bh.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16116"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii , acorallo@gnu.org, suhailsingh247@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, nicolas@n16f.net, arthur.miller@live.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Joel Reicher Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 17 19:38:53 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sfNO9-00042l-Cv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 19:38:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfNNI-0000s1-FT; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 13:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfN4i-00022p-Sk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 13:18:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sfN4g-0008Lq-LQ; Sat, 17 Aug 2024 13:18:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1723915119; x=1724519919; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=whRreSY4K9THmd3somI5ZBvD3n8hMetAyp4S15k9mi4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=hxW7Yx5YTRCgTVPZyy9lRRvFkOLWgxvMYg6jZKN0IXSEoeJw59wNa0vUzFuF3OCX BS/WnF2kpadTUbtjI4BXAO8FIWXkI5HXtelyaTOp6CHvo4mufFR8jxbqVXdDYQuUH g71mvZZlvESI+OAuQYj91viUg2eVj/ATYshSPP+E9LSQRukV0zaMgTfosutRIIcCf DfZRdtRLFUiHATgb45WqFA3vz15E6omHP5inuAz+xhC2//k1tzGZzNVjhqwtE//0G uqcKcpVKQsitjZFwgpCyVgpYffyHGPGjOVNpi3rPSEvlkUcgrtB+st+N2WXZIPX9K a97dK9UbbYWfX7cutw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [92.251.79.197] ([92.251.79.197]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs04.server.lan [172.19.170.170]) (via HTTP); Sat, 17 Aug 2024 19:18:39 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <86cym7w7bh.fsf@gmail.com> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:21eyLvcoCZSPZ78HXXZaDbhLtkJuUbDca/dWlDxtCgWvUBi8VFOYTG4yHzRPKzAp7c9/s y8jVM84XfP3YS+6KD/J/Q/tLsylSQ5bgIxX4OfebOsx/oyBDNcgS9KKeoBfryEPKXp1wlQSeNsO4 xWZyOBwR9DVdI9xMFAUR8ZON/tmndVcrD4wVLJ2vLl3UwV7jvdS7rUaD7umQNSSXLme6/BlIrgXP NKxjAvRrMVAQ3PpWzydkjTxLvRk4aCT91DiDwESdVpEPtX4clnpSdxeDDyRq+rYoRwMbSETqJmn3 ME= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:KDY8uRbljMA=;1hWuqQauzClSc+u8DBNmgxirAeo A9lh92Xl6P0W2zNp1nGtD65aq4sI1VOi/WkKQNvL3/xAKyEfJC6yT5WytllsX5UEt/6/DjRPi FSRO2H064A26dCPuenPwCkgLz113bBEZJUw2Cm3Qel0kiqgxLadi6vtdQYB9OEE4OAeHxPzjb AF5jgH6rQ0PlHNT+5VYfh2RnQKu5PW/PSh2owH7DWaGvJgVQbgjKOZJP+yNCdB66OG4BjDamu EAh7HJY9uS/z9aNIGdRRE4qg/2QFcOoAt/gkyLwtAdaEOt/wrKJsKimPJbysHmCeF1Tqd9DaD KB8LLl0P1uiIu2RSVFF/c+LMR/adjtcNeg89MUxSXuXNg3MwHjNJBptRuC81byhvqzvgwDGy8 U+hnOte8JYt5xpHSRcQF59HD8j7SanGWsKq/dg6GBfIqiRCxtSmLQ+3P7YcQeTk0rFVcM3afm W6e9QS3BPM+VQsZAjW08dyaDYNJT4GoxSzYHMIfmI/P9oBbzQm6cCfWFbNxifBV5VBwFzqgwC yOttaUcx+wTl7cLWLCnE6zQU4jW7OiU+Igh38ML+iRUZZoUdLBasXF24ppYH0xKCuzwdD/GVg lpH9TGnK70sPKMNNW8pV3yVkRPVpKSk/DR5Qrv2bohPSQX1Gg90mjO9+kGLDwfm53buNAyIua AteI58O7KHxeeYMav9fJFGKtqbe1ULHgUZLC/CZEIQ== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 13:37:58 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322868 Archived-At: > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2024 at 2:30 AM > From: "Joel Reicher" > To: "Stefan Kangas" > Cc: "Christopher Dimech" , "Eli Zaretskii" , acorallo@gnu.org, suhailsingh247@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, n= icolas@n16f.net, arthur.miller@live.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Emacs ffi > > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > Christopher Dimech writes: > > > >> Incorporating a mathematical library into Emacs, based on Calc, > >> is not just feasible but highly beneficial. > > > > I think we all agree that a general purpose mathematical library > > would be interesting. The point is that the specifics of how it > > is implemented matters. > > "Interesting" is different to "useful", and I think this is why > the implementation is unclear, because the requirements of a > library can only be made clear by a multiplicity of consumers. > > What packages, other than Calc, would make use of such a library? > (That's not rhetorical; I don't pretend to have an overview of all > such packages.) > > > If you think basing it on Calc is the best way forward, then I > > invite you to get started. > > It needs to be based on potential consumers. If Calc is the only > consumer, then a library does not make sense yet. Agreed. I cannot see an Emacs package that would make extensive use of the library. > But that's not to say an FFI wouldn't improve Calc's > implementation. If that's the issue, then it's a discussion that > differs from one about library. - Joel Calc is not bad, and outside libraries would not improve it much. The mathematical tools of calc could be redesigned as an emacs built-in library that Calc would then use. Calc would then become just a normal package. Direct work on Calc has stopped. My comments were directed at not enforcing licensing checks on external libraries, but rather to maintain only our own internal licensing complian= ce and provide guidance to users. Users should make their own decisions abou= t integrating libraries. Individuals who primarily write code have no serio= us experience on licensing matters and legal implications. Licensing issues require specialized knowledge beyond coding skills, inclu= ding an understanding of legal frameworks, compliance requirements, and the nua= nces of different software licenses. Therefore, it's crucial to involve those w= ith a solid background in licensing to ensure proper handling and adherence to= legal standards.