From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: RE: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2020 20:37:27 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <56d1484e-6f41-575f-0fbb-fd2bd99ab152@yandex.ru> <87eejqnlxk.fsf@gnus.org> <3156f8b8-1db1-1858-95c3-16d213c2353a@yandex.ru> <87czz8n1gk.fsf@gnus.org> <83zh2c7bal.fsf@gnu.org> <87pn37jvzt.fsf@gnus.org> <83y2hv5o1v.fsf@gnu.org> <87eejliz18.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21659"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , dgutov@yandex.ru, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 19 20:40:48 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kqi5w-0005WZ-UI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 20:40:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43522 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqi5v-0000dC-Sh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 14:40:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqi2p-0007ie-BO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 14:37:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:43861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqi2n-0005jb-7x; Sat, 19 Dec 2020 14:37:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608406647; bh=BwhclzS0QlYw7audRA9CKeCA74nSWPykBrz0TS7qtWk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=ZvS2GzHUtHpmN/CJ3J51rvPUVsKMiwiQ8CpZOnraF0LQDvHJx19AoO42kVvBPfTwb ertgxr7VevbrcDExias8oaIb8iNwowZvDxR2TSP/rzhUN9PCUv3VHVas9xxoZLdGUk 9SZ1ghHkaTjmD1TgxwKYaLruq1h8E5ZfL73yffLU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs06.server.lan [172.19.170.174]) (via HTTP); Sat, 19 Dec 2020 20:37:27 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:NKzH34LcfAs6jDDQyM02Ibaar+TVX4gib1DRJdVb9H53srIFSqGL2a++q8nkmkyxbJ2T7 3HSkCJuClJfJN60Ypb2EW8lV+xHO61clM5aPPUIXm13SGYwEtfFjW2ZCWxsBM6zwxTTjQ5r/N509 EA4CmR53K1o4JQD6tGmnFaxDeJiNGjRiK8zHAVue0WOIz3MMr9PK6iDvIAOHAMqwlh07ICCmmJjG 1s0JSqS0FGGw8FFjdeGAVEo3sNvtzGRss2gt1p6PgkP0iQlYuVAFr/L7K6dxD02FHoSeeuDUXQ5Z gA= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:bcxojmthzPM=:1wr5wk0BtupnGjlmIF/Knx kStb3GS1Z11rzvhIUX4rk7qoWfXtHmJqdXU3Vz639KrmgcfvZnDF7/WaOPv23qy/nL8w+sEt/ cZ9plmn1FspUzqxHb0pGrAliWrsitj/lMV9b8O85tBgNvvUBGH9AuOSz1p0ria7zbfLSJgUCm d8yWYDRczzcUNit7aQ0BUrmw/mGIRn8JZzNYfwuGlwNxLDv7A2/qeiuXXQ2mH10cryZ5yNytk b59eeuxa2YMmmNUgINipgkYzKN4+yVTYAfZcAptHiGz8Pt/NqngL+GJQ92gNGDAZIyyBeAsFy J14yxdrvn9oj+lidfv8JqL648NCbiEFtoQlXQLmiheK8IF1MzdO14MDO1LTD16gbsbIP6bMX4 wWdDAFGebIFZU79CZTh1IfHANK73/3JumC2UidH2n3PFLo1P+Spwght2htaKg3K5jWy29YwKo ZWsaWGumdX3LCXf2kOGe8QsfIaQ5JNwdRS4fCI7gTrU/6qt3ka+fqdatLOmWLVpSq+3GggJA5 FH/tVrUDiwMmDx1xdbaKvKSnoSyTILgzyKFuTz6y0RFokGJIcTvi5AW8l4F4uziZ7FNDTS3qH yq5Rc9NvSrqPU= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.21; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261280 Archived-At: > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 at 12:42 AM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Lars Ingebrigtsen" , "Eli Zaretskii" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru > Subject: RE: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > > No, I wouldn't, which is why I don't really suggest doing this. > > Somebody may come up with ideas that makes the proposition workeable, > > and I see that Drew has one -- he suggests having a blank toolbar in > > these instances, and ... perhaps? It's a lot of "dead" space real > > estate, though, so I'm not really enthusiastic. > > I haven't suggested using a blank tool-bar. > > Not at all. The `tool-bar+.el' code that I > pointed to lets you _not show_ (not have) a > tool bar at all, until you click a menu-bar > pseudo-menu. > > When you do that Emacs pops up the tool-bar > only for the duration of one action (tool-bar > action or any other action). > > There's no blank tool bar - no wasted space. > As the doc for `tool-bar+.el' makes clear, > that's the point: save screen real estate. > > It takes only a minute to go to Emacs Wiki, > download `tool-bar+.el', load it, and try it. > You will immediately see the effect, and > won't have to guess. You don't have to like > it, but you might want to at least find out > what it is (and isn't). > > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/tool-bar%2b.el > > Other approaches are possible. With only > Lisp (no C, toolkit etc. changes), I came up > with the behavior it offers. Emacs can no > doubt do something better or different. But > IMO, `tool-bar+.el' is a good start, and it > or similar could be added to Emacs immediately. Can't the functionality of the toolbar be provided by a separate package. Then if one wants it, he can require it.