From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: RE: [External] : emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 05:05:01 +0200 Message-ID: References: <831qra8klo.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt9yxtvi.fsf@gmail.com> <83zgdy714g.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmepuq7r.fsf@gmail.com> <83y1tdyxbi.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilkcv0qm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11021"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "rpluim@gmail.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , Drew Adams To: "rms@gnu.org" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 24 08:34:28 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1omr2a-0002aa-8S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 08:34:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omnm5-0003op-RF; Sun, 23 Oct 2022 23:05:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omnm4-0003nu-JU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2022 23:05:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omnm2-0004jB-Kw; Sun, 23 Oct 2022 23:05:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1666580701; bh=niBb5XX8HhI0hDyR3STmUsUQ0tFPBJ5lenPloTu0WIc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=GX720dyjaTESviJG2a8ZaiQUMXrTZoIaBTbjfsZGsdGp9czoe6YU950pYMtiB+9XT uIy7ezjkjfzRGB0t6FODk1vezIIzN0mtkg1SfSDfoqZBMNXZ/P5GzyFLZu+cz75QZs kNcpDirMExi6zFYUgZYKtYHdPErzKX4kJ047KSF0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [92.251.127.164] ([92.251.127.164]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs13.server.lan [172.19.170.181]) (via HTTP); Mon, 24 Oct 2022 05:05:01 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:j86YEE5JIEYrgHFWSXCYV4B7uGPcLRFcV/UqmV3rLSLGbxV6yHVCUqK7orhg8EIaZse+S t373U4h5CKOZdRdC4razyTMSiYbs23F2QOj9qNj4CvGeq6gLF3mPLB/akYk0/83pOa38Eu6N6eu6 6OgMSgW5dK91TTxPg3hIpwX8hMlEOB5VtoUB0r127zuPV2I50AJhOIlLvTKNYrwZLVVZCix/YbQD jfYdExye0cgIZOBB5w5tHIDvELPDFra2OkMBHMXTfzo+Slibs+LYDYsyZ5KGnuoI3nJnOk0ZUyvi QA= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:tYIaJue6CVI=:FLYdtO9/k28LZIeHsS3YIU oAEEm+3xa8O2RxJab5UG3l6+fXnNyWzN9L2m+CPKyldrrAq6PxElthbBZ5xjYjHx5ogKO8CBB PHBGd4MiN2UJ9P3qCyefh3Iy1tiqE90LAs+Eac5vAuzKhRFeG+nDHfo5M8JyyGR1RldJjEWNq Sd75lVDgL4VAMQrd2KIBVg1qarbVqnBL7U9TF4TN0dD4RBwU2C2Ft8v3m+/NaPMNgn3rnn3rB nZorHCG/RFig9pptcxu+7DG5akYjul36G1AJ3slLVQaA84vldn0ORuYcIKlW7TH8e3uL6U7g+ o0pIs2HhmL/3ZAzh4+4GH49f5kQ0NswS6udgaqUCSs6KOQCUScGQ0XO8Yc5YbAfOsFIGTci3g ihvrHDqnWKWq1aAcVSEHXRWj500pnVluWqv8G8VJgx16Rn7q0f4M6O6rCk1zTEaQ9r59Le1YX fz9VeLxMXvyacfCfb6R9YHEHFD7TM6723SwueCvCWQzxfCUP+pMgQA4nZgzI6Bz8VuKidZ10L u1MMhLmXl7d+PIOacUaGsgIgl51qiXWME+PllPNemg+10rQVu3SWJQV0Zi62BuN/XapNa7R1O ioMOqnQSxYB1PnR+eLPdhPcMY2X3oHa9KZn48rHPJ+cHaXiblseb3d8WjHerSQxyVKZEi9yId eVlH3OUBVTtYbEC3eoeZfrb7Ql6wQnxjUO0qLn6Se7VvGnuBNWTRU2fQQkrdQ4OeeaufJiGzS zOhoWbqlOijNSfeMN4ts6Z3QbqsaNDaPpjLiXrTn70ADVOkVvdX0TcCGjwVGKk9md/sQt1C5 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.21; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:298342 Archived-At: > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 5:22 AM > From: "Drew Adams" > To: "Eli Zaretskii" , "rms@gnu.org" > Cc: "rpluim@gmail.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" > Subject: RE: [External] : Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference t= o alternative syntaxes for Unicode > > > > From: Richard Stallman > > > We try to avoid the Latin abbreviations (such as "e.g.") that used t= o > > > be customary in erudite writing. Many readers don't know them. > > > It is better to say "such as" instead. There is nothing erudite about e.g. Besides the fact that there is nothing wrong about formal text and standar= disation in style. Knowing about them and what they mean is even more relevant tod= ay. Having advocated for good writing, I see nothing discrepant regarding its = use. > > We use "such as" and "like" and "for example" and others, but we also > > use "e.g.". I find nothing wrong with that; technical literature out > > there is full of those, and people who use and develop software should > > be familiar with this abbreviation. (And if they aren't, there's > > always Wikipedia, and our Glossary also explains it.) That is part of > > everyone's education, if you will. > > > > I'm sorry, but I refuse to give in to such "winds of change". Where > > it feels natural to say "e.g.", we will not avoid saying that just > > because someone might need to go look it up. Of course, we shouldn't > > use it too much: for example, using more than one in places too close > > to one another should be definitely avoided. > > FWIW, I agree with Eli here (and Po Lu). > > Pretty much everyone who understands most of the > common words used in our doc understands "e.g." > (and "etc."). That's not a reason to overuse such > abbreviations. It's a reason not to overly avoid > their use. > ___ > > It's more important to be sure to use "such as" > and "like" correctly than it is to avoid "e.g.". > > Unfortunately, readers won't necessarily get the > difference. "such as X" includes X. "like X" > doesn't necessarily include X - and X need not > even be an includable value - it could be a > pattern/exemplar that describes possible values. > ___ > > On the other hand, there are plenty of people who > confuse "i.e.", thinking it means the same as > "e.g.". I, for one, avoid using "i.e.", in favor > of "that is". > >