From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 14:16:39 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86h6bzqj2v.fsf@gnu.org> <87ed718o45.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86h6bwoaa7.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15218"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jeremy Bryant , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 07 14:17:04 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sbfbD-0003lM-VH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 14:17:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbfaz-00034e-9L; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 08:16:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbfax-00034U-N8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 08:16:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbfau-0001JF-LK; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 08:16:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1723032999; x=1723637799; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=SiLTjRlPSghz9ciu+XkDz13Hk1qmyB3jheHSCHrIXbA=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=k9UeV8vQFKd1VUYbYud0Bl942kjWh6mwG57tYfLaSqw+pWdOhfZ9JVGYgnjG2CAp SvQ6SzjXn9puQJ7mspuSHqJ9CoZe4B3ugcD4UExVKrJHaHBX0HPv7cYDylxu7GO4u s/QZa3fP2fBX1x3QlVtoh0ZY258M6UKwFJOe9ILFYST0JoErM9SsRQzJGFHIj4fE0 ykJDzC840bd+1L//jvAiNV0KVoJ8+baMCa1dSxYVUbi+rGE6lRpXWdZJpczlaFRhR 9DAfXrxlYs94LDz+XVis9cotkG19QjoIa4gTUIfQR+MIo8+tO3GvyDCYWFObgGZCu aOVnrLRYUmvNUVX2dg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [92.251.79.197] ([92.251.79.197]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs15.server.lan [172.19.170.183]) (via HTTP); Wed, 7 Aug 2024 14:16:39 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <86h6bwoaa7.fsf@gnu.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:XrqPy1HFX8nIuJCm5zixrI1t5RPA7Qm2nz6ya2WjJPwINB2O3h8kXqWnIrmpcj+fJLhz8 b2fWxGnNOpHGaLczMy0KGnlKP8nSpPobdZf6RHqmU5hBTNOeowAq6aonhF1eUCDucAYEmZO9g35L fk6OXDYbbhkmmAfWNoVmaY9XvKxb3Tpv7uw8r3mTyVmzqTxvJwVGgNC94d35LF7eTlO3sCwpCAEg E/z+OVJMQwHyK/ElDhnKo3qM0oVBWsXZMdMDPIwXin6Cw+OL5yHUne/k6NCjH/yLUQVqaiFsT1gA Ns= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:7Oif6M5j76A=;IornC3u8iLlg7TQu21OKoQ1HLOt cuIf0YH7cNg5AVA9INzASwsoNFfDVvhXNrX3ZiovUM28/HOanQS5KQ8App6nXi12YkU4rbprC gGRf4jykgghYfxYJgnBvJWZ6VUUbPgRu0nsve0dqFi1H6YzZQOV1Zur2yl/NV6C5wQTq0hd1B kk/QnRCMxKVbCZzZ0gz8vSbldSLkuXQNQnYriaa4dkIgk06Lwhv2/BFwXcKBeDfMtO97PtmZs 4hUf2DhaJa35dr5907bl8ANkwhWu2S5tG2l2nNrCzpeJvFPUAosMU8bO8pELz74GSsT0BJFdf qI9tRNe2hBmO1nYRgCgdxiZMBJwnOL8IRQo8H3GhuCuBL0RbmpNVnS5pSS4k2z4bP4YiVtE4D qy/oE/8fB4QQFdREJ0sI8KBghb0cIX3iJ+J9PYSayY0KyxDstxibjqQiLg3hpCkF6ddOi8EWn RQ1rqajgomFfs7lkF9cNZbd2lz+DaaKIHAm0c1OVlE6Pl0gJBXMOUk0Om2ptWMYijOXVKTRab DgI8lHcIGSKXa+i5IgNJ9bHZFqYB0X4Ae5f4A/wNG+f8sv7Lnsk1eviGl6pq2fX2NGqka7pby WTHNPuSHsGp8+5sZ4OVldwOIUVs4u2vnGzfYL5p+YAaHjCbbpvbW3HQQjUnjwE0C0sHXqaR27 suSqwIlo6UML4WnGWEC19a4cuqN7ckODy29oGry53A== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322502 Archived-At: > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2024 at 11:13 PM > From: "Eli Zaretskii" > To: "Jeremy Bryant" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg, rms@gnu=2Eorg > Subject: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other > > > From: Jeremy Bryant > > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg, rms@gnu=2Eorg > > Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2024 20:09:30 +0100 > >=20 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >=20 > > >> From: Jeremy Bryant > > >> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2024 23:27:39 +0100 > > >>=20 > > >> Reviewing the Emacs website, and previous discussions on this list = below > > >> (admittedly not recent, but still relevant)=2E It seems important = to add > > >> some text on Lisp which is not currently there, as per ideas of RMS= and > > >> Eli summarised below=2E > > > > > > Why is this important? > >=20 > > It appeared to be an outstanding documentation item to add to the > > website, using the summary text written from RMS=2E > >=20 > > I personally believe it is important and useful in the context of an > > introduction to Emacs such as the website=2E For new users, or indeed > > new contributors, Emacs Lisp may appear an intriguing choice, and that > > summary offers a compelling reason for Lisp=2E >=20 > It is hard to find a good place there to talk about these aspects=2E > The site introduces Emacs as an editor, and describes its important > features=2E Emacs being Emacs, that list is long, but far from > comprehensive=2E We could add a paragraph about Lisp there, but then > (a) it would be most probably lost in the (quite long) introduction, > and (b) there are many more aspects of Emacs of the same importance > that could be added, and we must draw the line somewhere=2E >=20 > The way the site solves this dilemma is to focus on user-facing > features=2E The fact that Emacs is written in Lisp doesn't fit, IMO=2E =20 I agree=2E Some detail could be added in the introduction to new users (perhaps in an appendix if things do not fit together well enough)=2E =20 For new users, we should mention the immediate benefits=2E Customization and Extensibility: Emacs allows users to tailor the editor= =20 to their specific needs, whether it=E2=80=99s through themes, keybindings,= or=20 custom commands=2E Integration and Efficiency: Emacs integrates various workflows, from code= =20 editing to project management and even personal organization, offering a= =20 seamless and efficient experience=2E We can also suggest learning paths for users who wish to explore Emacs Lis= p=20 further, ensuring that this advanced knowledge is available without being = a=20 barrier to entry=2E