From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2024 10:59:12 +0100 Message-ID: References: <169c6564-4722-4338-a049-5f8f3ce69394@alphapapa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25823"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Daniel Radetsky , acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adam Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 27 14:42:12 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tGIIz-0006OI-LU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2024 14:42:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tGII6-00057N-GN; Wed, 27 Nov 2024 08:41:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tGEpN-0003YN-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2024 04:59:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tGEpM-0003on-03 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2024 04:59:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1732701552; x=1733306352; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=2+kZKTfN4mcxMfbLNBUASeCWZQS74WrTiCGQ/xC0/aM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=E14UMiqNWgpQa/51lz0pY5/1vgKi+U+E7IbVpQMvgAGNYRQP/F3QBuhYcg2AtOQa FeDWb2bqxEW8tBzt4Utd8/40o4oGFzTGoxQyZCxkcd/91YyCutElsnvfrpZBc81co dsIC7EJCx6khl1EPEcCAKhk+ptuT4UywtEgFyWNaSwHhFG/d+qWKnbavm0ETS6MOV eIY+GCScxLvTFcgOjSGq/WTGdFetzSLdFCnqz/WG6iVEGPnDgLUe3B28okfG3DAR2 9JMRS1Gb6spWYYmDg91xX/wBg6qcPGE0Mo6cWkxrJGdNUNqDtCir+cNeiBh5U2K1A pIf5ZPT4vNH4MmOy8A== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [77.71.252.27] ([77.71.252.27]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs09.server.lan [172.19.170.177]) (via HTTP); Wed, 27 Nov 2024 10:59:12 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1kt11XSXOTreO1oAdxrowhZADG0EY41UppAavUPOehi3usXxdxaRhwSEcevuDV0ipDYUS 3bRYPEhmMl3aRo+ec7fmfb0atMDw6p+ujj+gDg1tWG2kJSpY0BB1TLuz8NZldR+cMC3zsdmtCLIv JTdIubMX0Qho6iGzX8/eqdNmUXrWUZxu57dCuZ7GGqsbAc8ZU+zvRz0QgHwAbetHVlxYwF/zoJL0 tbKrtXJh8/zLr4YiGfbSMGjNeeJjATCMbS6iY6tuisfsLslkcfxOhDs88iTXVIkFycFndjvTXv6I Qc= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:5qZxaT9XzCc=;1MpekYUo5wXVqym4i+4o4qqrbeZ zTOZkAoj4pe+ga0obVqrkNWjKXswXgJBfpjQxAp1GFBNSGZvRrndOy7fM0ZLDUNBMHO3yfNjG 3Xjkkwi3X5acQaRHyoXM+CTofdZgQ6sGLaeWaFLqLQQc77m6L0j8lZaOfd3YvwJZRjNNJeGyd Ck5u8dpV7xATPlKNPwz5zhKfp1qJII/rrEIgqbzPlVrE2yunYeiuadjNpxBvQ0iw7rnd+00nn VyVr9b6jbSlhD58DnyIJMaws44Eootb+HZsaaLm9yKPUsFwZBR/uhnOPRzX7PLbOqE6LFfLd1 lEqGZX2+/4w2e0oLgbluQDtEKWR6HNHpCsqbnObrNHJjTzJsEasInzT+FnM64QcDGjvJ7wwzN Ctre0Dqjn4wFDvWo7oHs5CloHiCK0TMvHdYNead/KAILJW9X9FnC8nz6JLy+0DuX1hmJlE5BD RKTZaKtSDI39jDaQVZuQcTNiMolWcyYTQ/G4cwS77z6dKxySlrp7WOg4ngEyNvH97O5X8DqOI aOss4+0ghDS08OyyL5QDlbxHmPRDlVa9l4v8/3qzH/R9LHMXUZMMBd/M7YDPYmqhqgHVmCE5n hcWg+qrJAVg/xIHj91KW+7bnEa7sYerIUtlqdPx2d/r9K0kMwlmeWx0kc6Sefwiu6MIFJ6Kgs cjQgMobGPUsIX4OT4k0b7nuUOm+M7OGMPDL5krjvbw== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -36 X-Spam_score: -3.7 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.931, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 27 Nov 2024 08:41:12 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325763 Archived-At: > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2024 at 2:18 PM > From: "Adam Porter" > To: "Christopher Dimech" , "Daniel Radetsky" > Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development > > Christopher, > > On 11/26/24 13:51, Christopher Dimech wrote: > > In the matter of blaming maintainers for decisions - whether directly = or > > indirectly - the question of whether maintainers should be allowed to > > break their own rules is critical. A compelling case exists that they > > should. Strict adherence to lengthy review periods or > > consensus-building processes is often impractical, especially in > > situations where only maintainers possess the necessary expertise to > > advance the program. > > > > Maintainers breaking their own rules represents a pragmatic approach, > > prioritizing progress and functionality over rigid adherence to dogmat= ic > > processes. This flexibility ensures that the project continues to evol= ve > > and adapt to its challenges. > > You seem to imply that some kind of rule-breaking has happened. I don't > think this is so--unless the rule were "No one may make any change > unless everyone agrees to it." The technical matters in question have > been thoroughly discussed. A change was made. The maintainers support > it (in absence of a better solution, which they have not found). One > contributor refuses to tolerate it--regrettable, but solely his decision > to make. There's little else--factually--to say. Even when rule-breaking occurs, this should not inherently be a problem. Maintainers are justified to make decisions. > > That said, while maintainers must retain the ability to make such > > decisions - even if they sometimes result in dissent or the > > departure of contributors - there is a clear responsibility to avoid > > fostering a culture of arbitrary rule-breaking. Transparency, > > accountability, and judicious use of this authority are essential to > > maintain the integrity of the program, especially in a collaborative > > environment heavily reliant on contributor involvement. > You seem to imply some kind of secrecy is involved. Everything I see > indicates the opposite: lengthy, public discussions, long-considered but > finally needed decisions, and further lengthy, public discussions (with > unfairly implied chastisement of the maintainers for implied secrecy). > One could hardly find a more transparently run project. > > You even mention integrity, as if to suggest that the maintainers' is in > question. Please be careful that your words don't imply criticism where > none is deserved. No criticism. Integrity referred to emacs as a computer program, not of maintainers. Contributors should acknowledge that the practical demands of maintaining necessitate decisions being made without exhaustive discourse like in this case. Finally, it is users that have to adapt accordingly with the tools provided.