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From: Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com>
To: Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net>
Cc: Daniel Radetsky <dradetsky@gmail.com>, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2024 10:59:12 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <trinity-49ecc7ea-ff86-4b67-96a2-9e5afa690c85-1732701552423@3c-app-mailcom-bs09> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <f1c25474-4ef2-492f-bafa-d17dc7325f08@alphapapa.net>




> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2024 at 2:18 PM
> From: "Adam Porter" <adam@alphapapa.net>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>, "Daniel Radetsky" <dradetsky@gmail.com>
> Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development
>
> Christopher,
>
> On 11/26/24 13:51, Christopher Dimech wrote:
> > In the matter of blaming maintainers for decisions - whether directly or
> > indirectly - the question of whether maintainers should be allowed to
> > break their own rules is critical.  A compelling case exists that they
> > should.  Strict adherence to lengthy review periods or
> > consensus-building processes is often impractical, especially in
> > situations where only maintainers possess the necessary expertise to
> > advance the program.
> >
> > Maintainers breaking their own rules represents a pragmatic approach,
> > prioritizing progress and functionality over rigid adherence to dogmatic
> > processes. This flexibility ensures that the project continues to evolve
> > and adapt to its challenges.
>
> You seem to imply that some kind of rule-breaking has happened.  I don't
> think this is so--unless the rule were "No one may make any change
> unless everyone agrees to it."  The technical matters in question have
> been thoroughly discussed.  A change was made.  The maintainers support
> it (in absence of a better solution, which they have not found).  One
> contributor refuses to tolerate it--regrettable, but solely his decision
> to make.  There's little else--factually--to say.

Even when rule-breaking occurs, this should not inherently be a problem.
Maintainers are justified to make decisions.

> > That said, while maintainers must retain the ability to make such
> > decisions - even if they sometimes result in dissent or the
> > departure of contributors - there is a clear responsibility to avoid
> > fostering a culture of arbitrary rule-breaking.  Transparency,
> > accountability, and judicious use of this authority are essential to
> > maintain the integrity of the program, especially in a collaborative
> > environment heavily reliant on contributor involvement.

> You seem to imply some kind of secrecy is involved.  Everything I see
> indicates the opposite: lengthy, public discussions, long-considered but
> finally needed decisions, and further lengthy, public discussions (with
> unfairly implied chastisement of the maintainers for implied secrecy).
> One could hardly find a more transparently run project.
>
> You even mention integrity, as if to suggest that the maintainers' is in
> question.  Please be careful that your words don't imply criticism where
> none is deserved.

No criticism.  Integrity referred to emacs as a computer program, not of
maintainers.  Contributors should acknowledge that the practical demands
of maintaining necessitate decisions being made without exhaustive
discourse like in this case.  Finally, it is users that have to adapt
accordingly with the tools provided.








  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-11-27  9:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 207+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-11-20 15:13 My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-20 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-20 16:23 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21  6:22   ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 10:05     ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 11:23       ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-21 11:40         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 10:29   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 12:26     ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-20 16:42 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-20 17:04 ` tomas
2024-11-20 21:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-11-21  2:28 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-21 12:34   ` Tree-sitter maturity (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Peter Oliver
2024-11-23 13:41     ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-24  2:10     ` Tree-sitter maturity Björn Bidar
     [not found]     ` <67428b3d.c80a0220.2f3036.adbdSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-17 22:11       ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-18 13:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-19  1:40           ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-19  8:17             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-20  9:13             ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]             ` <6765355b.c80a0220.1a6b24.3117SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-20  9:29               ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-23  0:43                 ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]                 ` <6768b256.c80a0220.222b1b.64e6SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-24  1:20                   ` Yuan Fu
     [not found]                 ` <87frmfxm8y.fsf@>
2024-12-24  4:52                   ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-24 12:32                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-24 21:31                       ` Xiyue Deng
2024-12-26  4:30                         ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-27 10:54                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 12:40                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-27 13:46                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-27 14:19                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 14:24                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-27 14:57                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 15:02                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-29  4:19                                         ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-29  4:23                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29  7:44                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-29  8:01                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29  8:41                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-29  8:59                                                   ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-29  9:14                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29  9:24                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-29 10:01                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29 13:35                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-29 20:12                                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29 10:13                                                       ` tomas
2024-12-29 10:21                                                       ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-29 14:59                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29 14:14                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-12-29  7:26                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                         ` <904957B9-55C1-42DF-BE6A-16986A4B539A@dancol.org>
     [not found]                                           ` <87r05o2eji.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]                                             ` <E2C32D27-EEC2-4DD2-B6F6-8827820B880E@dancol.org>
2024-12-31 16:47                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-29 14:36                                     ` Lynn Winebarger
2024-12-29 20:36                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29 23:29                                         ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]                                         ` <6771db94.050a0220.386e00.e451SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-30  0:30                                           ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-30  0:36                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-30  1:00                                               ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-31  9:48                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-30  3:20                                             ` Lynn Winebarger
2024-12-31  3:22                                             ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-31 22:29                                         ` Lynn Winebarger
2025-01-01 20:23                                           ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]                                           ` <6775a459.170a0220.2f3d1e.1897SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2025-01-04 16:15                                             ` Lynn Winebarger
2025-01-04 17:39                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2025-01-04 18:57                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-04 19:30                                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2025-01-04 20:12                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-04 20:46                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2025-01-04 20:57                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-04 21:18                                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2025-01-05  6:13                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2025-01-04 21:25                                                 ` Lynn Winebarger
2025-01-04 21:34                                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2025-01-04 23:21                                               ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-28 12:20                                   ` Peter Oliver
2024-12-28 12:23                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-29 14:50                                     ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-27 14:59                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-27 15:05                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-27 15:31                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-27 15:37                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-28  1:08                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2024-12-29  4:19                                         ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-29  4:21                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29  6:41                                             ` tomas
2024-12-29  6:43                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29  6:54                                                 ` tomas
2024-12-29  7:05                                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29  8:56                                                     ` tomas
2024-12-29 15:16                                                   ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-29 15:05                                     ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]                                     ` <87ed1qedhl.fsf@>
2024-12-29 15:21                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2024-12-29 16:02                                         ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]                                         ` <663726A2-141B-4B98-80FB-BD93E99AC122@dancol.org>
2024-12-29 19:06                                           ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]                                           ` <6771d84b.050a0220.250914.d0e0SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com>
2024-12-30  0:56                                             ` Yuan Fu
2024-12-27 14:11                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 15:06                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-31 13:47                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-12-27 18:29                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-12-28  7:55                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-28  8:11                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-12-28  8:58                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-29 15:09                           ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-26  4:32                       ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-26  7:12                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-29 14:35                         ` Björn Bidar
2024-12-19 12:23           ` Peter Oliver
2024-12-19 12:42             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-19 13:15             ` Vincenzo Pupillo
2024-12-20  8:59           ` Björn Bidar
2024-11-21 13:01   ` My resignation from Emacs development Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-21 13:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 14:29       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-22  0:01         ` Po Lu
2024-11-22  7:03           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22  8:14             ` Robert Pluim
2024-11-22  8:32               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 23:59               ` Po Lu
2024-11-23  6:39                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 16:29       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22  5:35     ` Adam Porter
2024-11-22  7:24       ` Madhu
2024-11-22  8:11         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22  9:26           ` Madhu
2024-11-22 12:07             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 12:40           ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 13:06           ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 13:39             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 14:25             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-25  4:28             ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-26 17:37               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-13  4:35                 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-15 15:27                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-15 15:48                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-15 20:43                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-12-19  4:22                     ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-19  8:26                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 22:18           ` Andrea Corallo
2024-11-22 10:57       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 23:19         ` Adam Porter
2024-11-26 19:01       ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-26 19:51         ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-27  2:18           ` Adam Porter
2024-11-27  9:36             ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-27  9:59             ` Christopher Dimech [this message]
2024-11-30  3:52             ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-30  7:53               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 16:22                 ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was: My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-30 16:56                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 21:06                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-01  6:00                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-03  7:26                 ` My resignation from Emacs development Richard Stallman
2024-12-03 13:33                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 16:21               ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-30 17:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-30 21:09                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-01  6:12                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-01 19:23                       ` Drew Adams
2024-12-03  7:25                   ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-03 13:32                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-06  4:48                       ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-02  4:09                 ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-02 13:04                   ` Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-02 15:32                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-12-05  5:08                     ` Richard Stallman
2024-12-05  6:33                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-12-02 15:29                   ` [External] : Re: Discuss new features/enhancements or large changes for users in emacs-devel [was My resignation from Emacs development] Drew Adams
2024-11-27  2:06         ` My resignation from Emacs development Adam Porter
2024-11-27  9:17           ` Daniel Radetsky
2024-11-22 15:36     ` Stefan Kangas
2024-11-22 17:48       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-23 23:43     ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2024-11-23  6:10   ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-23  7:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 11:06       ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-23 11:54         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 12:48           ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-23 23:59       ` Adam Porter
2024-12-01  3:50         ` Sean Whitton
2024-12-01  6:19           ` tomas
2024-11-24 18:12     ` Suhail Singh
2024-11-26  4:56       ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-26  7:38         ` Suhail Singh
2024-11-21  5:59 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-11-22 11:36   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-22 11:52     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23 10:36       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-11-23 11:31         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 13:39 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-11-21 19:01   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-11-21 19:19     ` Christopher Dimech
2024-11-21 19:47     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-21 19:40 ` Jim Porter
2024-11-24  4:35   ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-21 23:57 ` Po Lu
2024-11-22 17:26 ` On committing significant and/or controversial changes (was: My resignation from Emacs development) Ihor Radchenko
2024-11-22 17:47   ` Ship Mints
2024-11-22 19:04     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-24  2:35       ` On committing significant and/or controversial changes Björn Bidar
2024-11-24  4:41         ` Adam Porter
2024-11-30  2:16           ` Björn Bidar
     [not found]       ` <87ttbx73zu.fsf@>
2024-11-24  8:26         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-22 19:01   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23  6:10 ` My resignation from Emacs development Richard Stallman
2024-11-23  8:50   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-23  6:10 ` Richard Stallman

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