From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 (was: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:26:04 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87frrg6b1q.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5344"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 07 13:26:30 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sbeoI-0001GI-8O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 13:26:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbeo4-0005y1-MF; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 07:26:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbenz-0005Vy-Qu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 07:26:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbenw-0001NQ-NZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 07:26:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1723029964; x=1723634764; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=QkxRNZYgXAuN3yVONW3Ri9Tme09Kb8idiitpYvlhbBc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=aCdaKBgCmRV/j1upjpoAbsUp1/DUIYsy6G+6Qx8roch+lLDdqxa6QbKQ3fSO+Or5 51fMq2/EATanVcCA41zbXy/O75puDwc7kbp58ePqeHKljmcD77DLyNoEkZeoPqLPI uHXpT5V9AWerxe7ryO9ZDJe7BO6d5CsSmQF2hAp9D0ASTpPezGm3f3SZaFUo2/TZP Rv9lB51p8+QeE2A8qX8s4qpM6r718CSu2sPg8oj1cQIHps0ZP0fClIiQoPnAxj2JT XpTIibyu23WQ+L/zs2Cm9b5gW6oUHnvJfuvoI2fRsZWFCwGeztXz624NNGj5ZxP3f ZghCWsxQNqGHIWcb8g== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [92.251.79.197] ([92.251.79.197]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs15.server.lan [172.19.170.183]) (via HTTP); Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:26:04 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87frrg6b1q.fsf@dataswamp.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:YRoJR4d/HXGuGW2S9h0ngVrej3RIf/BG58D9C50QwZUfVeSPWuDdrQeuLDtUE4UpjFaBg /gQ8OSp0sYJn4VdSHN6wk50Ugp5ESj/iT82vj5oF2GL3K2iRqiKl0Vc5/vycz4pC88xiwHuRx4dn bAOHCV0smbWwMF4Bm/Ks2KfgN0BLPSdYwp2eiS1WlkmWbkJIFDHrvt6ci4srs5tBV3J9sWbioM9j iUa7w4RcEb+7o46HJdXBzV6AmcuAzeGuD6IIOg52zpxX9fG5s6crOE2lUOw1IHkUP4uktk8Vdns3 vA= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:oUS3BfoU180=;u8sCezC1ISlbweA5CoPYvAFU9xV 7qQlwz7kOdmm+r1nfYhjfMSKD936C/T/rJUiyPFq+23YMkLuX0/WzJcH/Nrgb5Ln7fhsil2xF T4uhZuLFgt/K3O96jBa79J3wXj4YO9DYnswZ+Ez5Fj6GAXkm6PZjCHRZ2fvzGuD+LU8wpotWT zibDh7aLubWWPROmPHTHTr0wSXJG1RwuC/+ScN/dUfWy0Cb98R9uDSgguj6CVOvGNx0eiYu17 PQleSgyZqAx4gIGTkEI0dDulBqa/33CYkiT0t1cJ6AHQVEI+eBJ5qPLY/3mahTiOw0er09lYK tt6Sh8fXo3Va/AEERjPKk4pF+3ei2aBFgppN403iQu3oNOWOFhhab8IMVx/vh4NRmETtOq61d Y/mpZzyRkVKVoEG5D+i+WtawOa9Y3rBHxtzRVv0spvYwWw13rtz7OScM2osHxVtpRVAyOHUj9 FadlB7328CLM5+ULeenO0Ddx4JkoBj3x9ar/jrsYVRjNe/1MTlCKaHnyxJSHndCPPQwEG0pER TLVmSc1/g01SzGX29+jMREqpQx6FlS7wEvqtSuGTJL4hjdpHrknqStY9EhAvmd46Yau0Apor3 Azm0n5ugQAcWNcgxc/S2WHihVzY8AG/6mp+I9RlynxC94xWTD2GBR+aeJSsAKzAT8EdaUTHjn fk2GUQEOxJdLdoO84oKvjVachexpWuQz9967oxp1pw== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322495 Archived-At: > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2024 at 7:34 PM > From: "Emanuel Berg" > To: emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg > Subject: Re: 10 problems with Elisp, part 10 (was: Re: Emacs website, Li= sp, and other) > > Abraham S=2EA=2EH=2E" via "Emacs development discussions=2E wrote: >=20 > >>=C2=A0Moving point around > > > > I thought it's the strengh point of Emacs=2E >=20 > When programming, half the time is moving around in the buffer > instead of solving the actual problem=2E >=20 > Not only that, moving around in the buffer is difficult and > error-prone as you don't know how it will look at the point of > code execution, and also moving around and of course > especially _editing_ it inside it changes it, so it is a crazy > situation to encourage=2E >=20 > > Why "Everything being a buffer" is bad? >=20 > Because one would like to separate data, data retrieval, data > processing, and how data is displayed=2E >=20 > This is possible to do in Elisp but people have not payed > attention to it which is why many program including such in > core Emacs are very long programs with a lot of moving around > buffers endlessly and this code is all intermixed with > everything else=2E >=20 > Very ugly, boring to write, difficult to read, error-prone > to maintain=2E How the latex and tex modes have been written is an example=2E =20 > --=20 > underground experts united > https://dataswamp=2Eorg/~incal >=20 >=20 >