From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:21:05 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <877dpjp30g.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87zh2fnmwq.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0tjufkc.fsf@telefonica.net> <87zh2ehpn0.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8463"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= , "Philip K." , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 20:23:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFv5-00024h-DG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:23:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33120 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFv4-0000k4-FM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:23:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53900) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFtm-0008Rl-0l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:22:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:50723) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFtj-0004ZH-US for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:22:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608060065; bh=e0hAxP+wlQ9zPghlOcI9QQ3EK9rrF54gSIqLgvJGM6E=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=GlBHmvBkwn3pyqXzv2tJyDMDmGp9Y83Fxq1ASHQ7FGBup4D/eT2K/u98EuLdq3YJu sOICYb2SLRh61cU0oe1oRyc+ViItSB1BkUXz+7RAWlahTXlU6Ns70lz5AJxMU9cgM8 yGppKuBo+CUj4KSVCeKZedC8gjdDEUDTMK7Q4OS0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs15.server.lan [172.19.170.183]) (via HTTP); Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:21:05 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kGbY/gIOeJA60VE3dUe7LIuVkBcH/7ozkFacAIZ8vPBiW0ubLNKmwVWYzGRYbCZVsJjBm l6hj7aZ2h5iGYYRUT6tdTzRcVnxz32ZPCKjN9x2fCs0t1Qkg1FMN5mKwnoQ8ddzCs699zrWOnz86 L0d78N79AznCnYV6w5gQcVjuCZiyoUDt74XL26wXONznrEWj3/sCXRIhuIksIriIukdz6Qg+7bfX HQ6jFqdL5dF46UCSRSfset7vONDkLuPQJNiQYKqN6PQFGh/aYC8ht7DqdXZV6kzIkCJEwzWyY+pr KI= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:sKAxMUQ+d3Q=:uXq0ccpuY9SXwTx9bteTZ3 WMXBcGAUA/ksWN+bM5YTDuMMX625GfdVRAIxV+6IqAS9adXExBzctA06QegPzub919fAUH+IN Ye57K6Bo75e1m5Jlhkw/TIJM9P1zRwwgNQ+8Jhwapl6eaXS5mIaaHCZqp0QsrYRhuNPvMtDTx tKJuGIbJay41PKKxPdA6cBnZ/U332eNVWXBlVrlUhHFGaJb+6LiIy7SvyHSbWjngYqQTNdpG+ ab8lcjwDLlIIoe6RqyfdxjdWVuIjQmIP6eE1FpBnAeKMjFkIHcGstXU8URPOf+ajqohAUwMv4 npjzb//4jwC+b1zcYI/YgylPSUWcKREcHQPeXdjikRzREvWyC5WYOVBJKc9wa/T0Ts/W1Lkfj OXAd38+A9t1+XLH630yW9jq0zCq/JmdCbY2D+H9sZpu0NYMNLYKghEEB4dXoFqI5Zl5ZPMbQW Icy7jsuhn8s8CK1Pi97KoTY6r5FJxUmprnmS2P7ygUVjZrEOqJwiQspucrBxA1CRJthvzo5+J LOQCUBQrG5CIxDazqtOZnDZhC+tV2YoPq8y13/FEWTRtF1Fsnj7Ap8449zTi8nctXtkuFQvB5 wzeMP0V9MEv5s= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260915 Archived-At: Then make a specific emacs mailing list for the topic and take live statist= ics from there=2E > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 8:02 PM > From: "Jean Louis" > To: "Philip K=2E" > Cc: "=C3=93scar Fuentes" , emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > * Philip K=2E [2020-12-15 21:49]: > > =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: > > > Really, this kind of decissions should be based on guidance by UI > > > experts=2E Sadly, it seems that we have none onboard, same as every = other > > > Free or Open Source projects around (and even most propietary ones)= =2E > > > They are very scarce=2E > >=20 > > Maybe I'm too cynical, but can a non-Emacs UI expert really help with > > something as other-worldly as Emacs? And I don't even mean this in an > > elitist way, just that it has so many conventions and usage-patterns > > from parallel UI traditions, that it might seem easier to just start a= ll > > over (which I'm not advocating for)=2E >=20 > Usability advises by Nielsen can definitely help, see here the outline > of a test: https://www=2Enngroup=2Ecom/articles/usability-testing-101/ >=20 > If we have clear proposal on testing, I can provide the test with 5 > people around me and give you results, then few other people can test > other few people and provide results=2E Or one built-in usability survey > can be delivered with Emacs or answered straight by people from Help > menu=2E It does not cost more than effort, not money=2E >=20 > That would accumulate data over time to know what people need and want > and how to improve the interface=2E >=20 > Jean >=20 >=20 >