From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:24:03 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87ikwc6bd2.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39657"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 07 13:24:59 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sbemp-000A9E-0p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 13:24:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbem3-0000RX-4n; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 07:24:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbem1-0000Qz-4g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 07:24:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sbely-0000kF-W9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 07:24:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1723029843; x=1723634643; i=dimech@gmx.com; bh=AyRyqmUbQxFF85X4r2Pi56AS25F3CDICzWKZvifbPYM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:MIME-Version:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject: Content-Type:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=kA7we3u83TOLI9Bh/9AE3UYtBZhwUmic6tAnYOCQSGhoQ1BjABDEJSMRKkg3Hr4S PoZHjMwxxp5rG8FiwEKFRjqBsDGzxJ1d2FpUq/39GagggoXVW/sgHdtTTGDLDiAzK KATcbx+YzxPRLplaBs1M8uS8oDpsIQatpWJ33KZGfJP35ZwKnh5rdVKcCBbwdMuC+ 5mtU274bS77ai4pa4oHLVboNg9xqSmPKXhTiUYWrvu0ItluwuiU1cUoiNhuxd2xtk Jdkx2ToemVcD3rayh0s+D3+lhLMHCcZvjY2YqZYJEkNErM/wp7BGFVlnFqcHcGWSU rRG1/frGvEaECRoD1Q== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [92.251.79.197] ([92.251.79.197]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs15.server.lan [172.19.170.183]) (via HTTP); Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:24:03 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87ikwc6bd2.fsf@dataswamp.org> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:yzmHomU2IqEoaoSplxzL9JiDqqWclBNgN0Wf5gPM1+WBNfMfLckJUpVRF68XWap5CATZf lpIhj5i72+5oTVxABjjTsbivQWOgGUgIc0pBXz0qIprOzGyAL+L4/OmPZsYC4IEZJ/00vrLgLkLC 7dVymUk4qN9iE0ruhp19yfk5TzBX2KaU6OOGvka7iOL6bXTK3mKPcpjZF5P2KxrbnBy+XdgRZcJs LeaIQt2EYXzfcQDB2uGboma5MSdosNAd0uyCpYmmTqkX8YPsC4wvKrdfnBpNPZOvuvHp78KSMDEl Oo= UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:S0N5NM97YEI=;JcSV6DibAeG3JnhLoCW9jBrbkf5 UoyWnvsLQe7Lgb2jRMVQb4/KzVEGr6ZvO/89ZI2rgo8CDWy3VzUR4ofjSTgPUKr//WkJKrZV+ ptddtqhd7bCR18tNm2qYDrdlD9CnYdgCrIkRVuSQRBWnL5PNShpdEnaCbKeugswNNmRKbMESs VrDB8QrfnLkN86nK6v+Omc4sHlIl/aG/aAK7fiQBVO+nw6wHEJQaSyEgBxaM5JC6iBi7dC786 cA+yu81ABC/DlG1/7JnFd7armyDDDJZXzWWWTvbFpHaaGHuOViID8Kvey6eEV541QQr7pAtAd sx/0EPFerVBRBCfehr7XYC69GKlySYTC3+oKz/+b6Y6Qbdph+NIZl4NiO91cuFFRcthaWEp2I pSOv2HlqjrGTuOnOTTDxPQKZBoiUqWLgSNqwX1CV+/jcQ107mzyoNYH0G18bDefQk909IJOMg Cv/Nzxaootzh0Zam8v+MjU6Id5tM+GtqRUrBoNshug96+zny46N7riLnFCE4FpWjzHFx7sMyR 0vl1tSS0h/aE36DAupXE5pZ+ecgTNzv5JBiHZDUf7zUgGRf+J9tM7WZ9r9sIBu6q5YEYBAaQU 58W8L/62QkXkfnpw7wfE86Zkq6SlDS302yUwtiF16Ja7S/3AzWoKhluEsmN3OVIEHg8WeNFRP aiPNHgzrinKO1nrbgGbSleWGGSaRPsldhWKDZztnlw== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322494 Archived-At: > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2024 at 7:27 PM > From: "Emanuel Berg" > To: emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg > Subject: Re: Emacs website, Lisp, and other > > Abraham S=2EA=2EH=2E" via "Emacs development discussions=2E wrote: >=20 > >> Lisp is stronger at universities=2E > > > > Not in Asia!=C2=A0 I can't name a=C2=A0 university in Asia where Lisp > > is taught=2E Lisp was never taught in our universities=2E=C2=A0 Not > > in Asia and not in the Middle East=2E=C2=A0 Perhaps in Japan? >=20 > Emacs-w3m is from Japan <3 >=20 > Seriously, I can't name any universities anywhere except mine > but I can guarantee 100% that Lisp is stronger relatively in > CS classes and the like than it is everywhere else=2E >=20 > Emacs and a few other important applications are written in > Lisp (Emacs is partly written in Elisp), other than that Lisp > is a hobby for some part of the computer elite=2E >=20 > >> In some instances the indented style and excessive use of > >> () makes working with lisp code harder than > >> other languages=2E > > > > Are you=C2=A0 sure?=C2=A0 I'm a Python=C2=A0 programmer and I don't=C2= =A0 > > think so=2E >=20 > I am sure=2E Edit something here in Lisp, you have to edit it > somewhere else as well, often=2E This, in combination with the > stacking of parenthesis that happens, has caused more syntax > errors than I would like to know=2E >=20 > > My=C2=A0=C2=A0 father=C2=A0=C2=A0 basically=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 hates=C2= =A0=C2=A0 whitespace=C2=A0=C2=A0 sensitive=C2=A0=C2=A0 > > languages=2E Perhaps it's about taste difference? >=20 > No=2E Just think, remove this line in Lisp >=20 > some-item)) >=20 > then you have to find the right place if that is to be removed > as well=2E Not only that, you have to identify the right > parenthesis and remove them and nothing else=2E When there are > a lot, it is difficult to see=2E >=20 > I know there is matching, commands to automate, yada yada=2E > But it is still much more difficult than just killing lines > in Python=2E >=20 > As an example, have you ever had a syntax error when doing > `let' in Elisp? >=20 > (let ((x 5) > (=2E=2E=2E)) > =2E=2E=2E) >=20 > Have you ever had a similar situation when doing x =3D 5 > in Python? Why not? >=20 > The Python syntax is ugly but for all practical purposes it is > faster and less error prone, and much, much easier to maintain > for other people or for you x years from now=2E I know a few large university python projects that are almost impossible to build from source=2E So I do not contribute=2E But its developers sti= ll think they are some new kind of geniuses=2E They can do everything except= =20 write code to standard expectations=2E I call these people hacks of trivi= a=2E https://docs=2Eobspy=2Eorg/ > --=20 > underground experts united > https://dataswamp=2Eorg/~incal >=20 >=20 >