From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Dimech Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 16:53:21 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <56d1484e-6f41-575f-0fbb-fd2bd99ab152@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11444"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 16 16:54:54 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpZ8f-0002pf-PW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 16:54:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51298 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpZ8e-0006RC-SH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:54:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50860) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpZ7H-0005ew-IS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:53:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:50365) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpZ7F-00006v-CP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:53:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608134001; bh=ZTcfW9eC2ZA5SxMsIMS89f99Fvu0VLk2+0GQwjj2ThM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=O6KqWVKNEu5QAqnxhzFDcOb72cq0VB+j7vsR5bkkKTNA/kIBT+oZETdzykqbDDDgE idkX6B4f00JiARHxlcvcAd0XDXdZPy2OwWX8SQgUV/PFHLiGmoqbNwEkJUBpJNaV4R sqTQn1b5D+jgHSFOlhaAhnoF92+acmHW9NAElSUM= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs11.server.lan [172.19.170.179]) (via HTTP); Wed, 16 Dec 2020 16:53:21 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:2jIwJlO9mxwKLIwCJFxucC0saOxHOG0OKoyyWj+85zgRB7tEPQowxsy2ZYLeBGG3Ywt2A 8OYedVynQZ2k71tUihpj0O+smDHPRf1Dy9YmqCE+6X5rNuemaILFEAKyG8UWpGdYUp0EJF1QA7MG ZHotn6rlTcByt3j2XDeI4ZKtboSrjri0o+33bMxoFHL1evMp/0VRAJOPwTZEPCQakGVWZbGuPG/m KhS9z5FVe/n2wGNmG3EnxOt06UVigFJy79QWrntPcBG04q4tnKmq2NGmX7MqjrUYBK55mITVnU9w rI= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Rp+pvsWP7HM=:c/y/fzM2H57PsH2CzboQtK bwPSiWRJa1fTp5cJqbPWSIQu46I0HI8wGb/xHM1/fZPS2Ufi8mgGArpjX9yJufDn2j1EBSJlQ 7tUE0z2Ua7FfMfWlkr1dBqnk4DcMDDyvZgtsKSNwenonX2AXf34k9mZwsh5UydOSBTeKBhj1/ DDXqe7Lp9lIXjKgFgvCyb4pKR2OODTFOkETzrpi6RLNgKihmpqOr28+tldXZwB8DriXUfQx07 Qr6zkSFl1XY9CYueONPPzyoQnahv3BqaRQpubnYLMDNQ7ccWenK6FBOmJJ9+/IUVZWcjzfeM+ eVzvA2MPIs/8D6J5jhmjtNfNPm7QM7xbvLKJIW+gPSFiF5Z04BilOc1NXPKVVf8qfdlub4S86 0TRsQbs41kmAWOGGUVkm6dff+gcaDi8oN+crIdpgU0AFanilctnI9wOlICtpKjIJAhSVwfjoR VZrX6/KdnmIlFdRFR1cQ1BIffKgrJmDhnYOUrzFqiyYdYJIEIPldzhL9lWiIf1XkhSbZxexnz FNTrkpOhHTmDWjwRyKo+2+SH4K9eq8KOcev8959TeS99R/NmURgy/00ZhqrpbNh5dHDVpoLL3 uD2a0PHQGJF4M= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.22; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261006 Archived-At: > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 at 4:24 PM > From: "Dmitry Gutov" > To: "Gregory Heytings" > Cc: "Lars Ingebrigtsen" , emacs-devel@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars > > On 16.12.2020 16:06, Gregory Heytings wrote: > > > >> > >> I also think the poll is heavily biased in favor of either Reddit > >> users (who are largely either power-users, or those who inspire to > >> be), or experienced Emacs users in general. > >> > > > > That's not factually correct. > > > > Only 1/3 of the respondents came from Reddit. > > Another 20% came from hacker news, and a bit more - from lobste.rs. > While it's not a given that those respondents are as heavily into Emacs, > those forums tend to feature power users as well. Regarding the rest, we > don't really know. > > > And the number of years repondents have been using Emacs is for 1/3 le= ss > > than 4 years, for 1/3 between 4 and 12 years, and for 1/3 more than 12 > > years. > > So 70% of the respondents have been using Emacs for more than 4 years. > I'd say that's pretty far into the "experienced user" category. > Certainly not people who need to be told how to disable the toolbar, if > they want to. > > And 70% of the respondents disable the toolbar. Might be a coincidence, > but there is probably a high degree a correlation. > It's a big fuckup, particularly when these people continue to insist on th= eir analysis when the statistics of the data will be biased. How can then people then expec= t to be taken seriously! Disregard the bad statistics so we can carry on with our argum= ent is their mantra.