From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kenichi Handa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi-display-reordering is now non-nil by default Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 15:11:41 +0900 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1312870322 3270 80.91.229.12 (9 Aug 2011 06:12:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 06:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, list-general@mohsen.1.banan.byname.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 09 08:11:57 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QqfXe-00038F-Qp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 08:11:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40804 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqfXd-00046m-7V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 02:11:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43662) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqfXa-00046h-Fg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 02:11:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqfXZ-0005Pi-0u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 02:11:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.aist.go.jp ([150.29.246.133]:46383) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QqfXY-0005J8-Hz; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 02:11:48 -0400 Original-Received: from rqsmtp2.aist.go.jp (rqsmtp2.aist.go.jp [150.29.254.123]) by mx1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id p796BhPf012750; Tue, 9 Aug 2011 15:11:43 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: from smtp4.aist.go.jp by rqsmtp2.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id p796BhSF016019; Tue, 9 Aug 2011 15:11:43 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: by smtp4.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id p796BfU8023553; Tue, 9 Aug 2011 15:11:41 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) In-Reply-To: (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 04 Aug 2011 06:12:09 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-Received-From: 150.29.246.133 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:143043 Archived-At: In article , Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Guidelines of [Unicode]). Paragraphs may also be > > determined by higher-level protocols: for example, the > > text in two different cells of a table will be in > > different paragraphs. > > > > The case of summary line belongs to the last sentence above. > That is one possible interpretation, yes. But it isn't the only one. I think it is the most natural/appropriate interpretation. > The goal is to have correct display of the summary lines, not to > decide whether we are dealing with cells or not. Directional control > character allow to render summary lines for display correctly even > without "cells". They can, but it is better to avoid using them to workaround the "cell" problem. > As for "artificial paragraph separators": I don't want to bother > people with too many technicalities (interested readers can read > relevant portions of bidi.c), but supporting "paragraphs" that have no > relation to newlines, i.e. begin and end not on line boundaries, would > mean a significant surgery of the current reordering engine. So even > if this is deemed as the optimal solution (and I'm not at all > convinced it is), it won't make it in time for Emacs 24.1, at the very > least. > Actually, any solution based on special text properties has a similar > problem: bidi.c works below handle_stop, and ignores text properties > entirely (with the single exception of `display' properties that > replace the underlying text with something else, like images or > display strings). So any such solution will also be out of the > question for Emacs 24.1. I think we should not stop finding the right solution just to release 24.1 on time. Isn't it worth delaying 24.1 for the right solution? --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org