Prefer UTF-8 over mac-roman? (was: [Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net>] charset=macintosh)

Prefer UTF-8 over mac-roman? (was: [Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net>] charset=macintosh)

[Karl Eichwalder, Karl Eichwalder]

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The attached message was sent to the Gnus list, but the source of the
problem is Emacs' coding system priorities.  Emacs prefers mac-roman
over utf-8 when decoding the text given below.

I noticed that PROBLEMS in Emacs 21.3 prerelease no longer says that
Unicode support is not complete (which it did in 21.2), so I assume
the Unicode support has been completed, or at least the bugs has been
fixed.

So, shouldn't UTF-8 be preferred over mac-roman in emacs 21.3?
Doesn't even Macintosh use UTF-8 now?

Perhaps it is too late for 21.3, and if so, shouldn't we at least make
this modification to HEAD?  I verified that the same problem still
applies.  (You can reproduce it easily by simply cut'n'pasting the
characters below to a new buffer in a emacs -q and try to save it, if
your mail reader decodes this mail properly.)

(Note that I run emacs in an UTF-8 locale, so this message will be
encoded as UTF-8, even though it contains the same characters as
originally reported.)


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Oort Gnus v0.16
GNU Emacs 21.3.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
 of 2003-03-05 on tux
200 gnu.franken.de InterNetNews server INN 2.3.2 ready

I wrote to attached message using the TeX iput method (C-x RET c TeX RET).
Especially I added these quotes: \ldq \rdq and then \ldots and \euro .

Sending the message, Gnus choose this encoding:

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=macintosh
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would have expected UTF-8 since UTF-8 is more standard than
"macintosh"; I know you can set your preferences somehow -- but I'd
like to see Gnus doing the right thing out of the box.


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Subject: encoding test
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:28:35 +0100
Message-ID: <shzno73x30.fsf@tux.gnu.franken.de>

“quotes”
and more…
Grüß Gott.

€ 1.

-- 
ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |      ,__o
Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)


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-- 
ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |      ,__o
Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)

Re: Prefer UTF-8 over mac-roman? (was: [Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net>] charset=macintosh)

[Simon Josefsson]

Somehow Gnus made a mess of my post, and put Karl's name in the From:
line.  I have no idea how that happened.  Karl did not post the
previous message, I did.  Sorry for the confusion.

I wrote, but attributed to Karl:

> The attached message was sent to the Gnus list, but the source of the
> problem is Emacs' coding system priorities.  Emacs prefers mac-roman
> over utf-8 when decoding the text given below.
>
> I noticed that PROBLEMS in Emacs 21.3 prerelease no longer says that
> Unicode support is not complete (which it did in 21.2), so I assume
> the Unicode support has been completed, or at least the bugs has been
> fixed.
>
> So, shouldn't UTF-8 be preferred over mac-roman in emacs 21.3?
> Doesn't even Macintosh use UTF-8 now?
>
> Perhaps it is too late for 21.3, and if so, shouldn't we at least make
> this modification to HEAD?  I verified that the same problem still
> applies.  (You can reproduce it easily by simply cut'n'pasting the
> characters below to a new buffer in a emacs -q and try to save it, if
> your mail reader decodes this mail properly.)
>
> (Note that I run emacs in an UTF-8 locale, so this message will be
> encoded as UTF-8, even though it contains the same characters as
> originally reported.)

and I quoted Karl:

> Subject: charset=macintosh
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:39:36 +0100
>
> Oort Gnus v0.16
> GNU Emacs 21.3.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
>  of 2003-03-05 on tux
> 200 gnu.franken.de InterNetNews server INN 2.3.2 ready
>
> I wrote to attached message using the TeX iput method (C-x RET c TeX RET).
> Especially I added these quotes: \ldq \rdq and then \ldots and \euro .
>
> Sending the message, Gnus choose this encoding:
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=macintosh
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I would have expected UTF-8 since UTF-8 is more standard than
> "macintosh"; I know you can set your preferences somehow -- but I'd
> like to see Gnus doing the right thing out of the box.
>
> Subject: encoding test
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:28:35 +0100
>
> “quotes”
> and more…
> Grüß Gott.
>
> € 1.
>
> -- 
> ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
> http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |      ,__o
> Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
> http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)
>
> ----------
>
> -- 
> ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
> http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |      ,__o
> Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
> http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)
> ----------

Re: Prefer UTF-8 over mac-roman?

[Karl Eichwalder]

Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net>, Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net> writes:

> The attached message was sent to the Gnus list, but the source of the
[...]

Oops, this message was meant to go to the Gnus list only.  Sorry for
spamming :-(

-- 
ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |      ,__o
Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)

Re: Prefer UTF-8 over mac-roman? (was: [Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net>] charset=macintosh)

[Kenichi Handa]

Sorry for the late reply on this matter.

Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net>, Karl Eichwalder <keichwa@gmx.net> writes:
> The attached message was sent to the Gnus list, but the source of the
> problem is Emacs' coding system priorities.  Emacs prefers mac-roman
> over utf-8 when decoding the text given below.

> I noticed that PROBLEMS in Emacs 21.3 prerelease no longer says that
> Unicode support is not complete (which it did in 21.2), so I assume
> the Unicode support has been completed, or at least the bugs has been
> fixed.

> So, shouldn't UTF-8 be preferred over mac-roman in emacs 21.3?
> Doesn't even Macintosh use UTF-8 now?

I have no idea, I know nothing about Macintosh.  But as the coding
system mac-roman doesn't have `mime-charset' property, I think Gnus
should prefer some other codings that have mime-charset property.
Even if mac-roman is used, at least there should be a warning like the
way sendmail-send-it does via select-message-coding-system.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org