From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dave Love Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: status of utf-8.el, etc [Re: Several serious problems] Date: 04 Oct 2002 23:32:02 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200208190748.QAA14278@etlken.m17n.org> <200208291325.WAA03596@etlken.m17n.org> <200208291732.g7THWRU11411@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200209250701.QAA10989@etlken.m17n.org> <200209300909.SAA05081@etlken.m17n.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1033770823 9516 127.0.0.1 (4 Oct 2002 22:33:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:33:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu, keichwa@gmx.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17xb0u-0002T6-00 for ; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 00:33:40 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17xbmj-0007LG-00 for ; Sat, 05 Oct 2002 01:23:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17xb0L-00070C-00; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:33:05 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17xaze-0006OP-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:32:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17xazZ-0006NA-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:32:21 -0400 Original-Received: from albion.dl.ac.uk ([148.79.80.39]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17xazX-0006KX-00; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:32:15 -0400 Original-Received: from fx by albion.dl.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17xazK-0000Pv-00; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:32:02 +0100 Original-To: Kenichi Handa Original-Lines: 52 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:8403 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:8403 Kenichi Handa writes: > >> (1-2) utf-8-translate-cjk can never be turned off once > >> turned on. > > > I don't think it should be toggled; > > Then, why do we have this now? > (defcustom utf-translate-cjk nil ...) It's there so that people can find the facility and have the option not to load it, since it involves quite large tables. I don't know how much the extra heap space is worth worrying about, but the tables should probably be made bigger anyhow. (This presumably wouldn't be important if it was preloaded, with the tables in purespace, but I think you want to be able to customize the charsets used, so they can't be frozen.) > As far as it's a customizalbe variable, one should be able > to turn it off. [I can think of examples where it probably only makes sense to customize things per session.] In this case I think I either forgot or ran out of enthusiasm, but I don't think it's something you'd want to turn off after loading it. > One may or may not want select-safe-coding-system to decide > utf-8 as the default for a buffer that contains CJK charsets > and etc. I'm not sure. That should be taken care of by coding priorities, surely, just as with Mule-UCS. > One reason of zero interest is perhaps that such a people is > already using Mule-UCS. Or that they've been told doing it in Emacs 21 is impossible. I'm sure people have complained about lack of built-in support, but if they aren't willing to work on it, I guess they aren't very justified, as with iso-8859 character translation. The basic Emacs 21 support actually has advantages over Mule-UCS, such as not clobbering unrepresentable characters and being something we can understand; I thought that would make it attractive anyway. > > Some of those names don't seem right. For instance, > > ucs-mule-to-mule-unicode isn't only used by utf-8/16 as far as I > > remember. > > ??? So, it doesn't contain "utf". I thought you re-named it to something that did contain "utf".