From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Per Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Default Emacs keybindings (was: Re: Menu suggestion) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:23:36 +0200 Organization: The Church of Emacs Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1082968178 17733 80.91.224.253 (26 Apr 2004 08:29:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:29:38 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 26 10:29:31 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI1UY-0001Mz-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:29:30 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI1UY-0005EM-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:29:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1Po-0007Dz-Ll for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:24:36 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1PU-0007DV-Ct for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:24:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1Oy-00076X-C1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:24:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [80.91.224.249] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BI1Ox-00076J-OA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:23:43 -0400 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BI1Ot-0002xW-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:23:43 +0200 Original-Received: from sheridan.dina.kvl.dk ([130.225.40.227]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:23:39 +0200 Original-Received: from abraham by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:23:39 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 39 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sheridan.dina.kvl.dk X-Face: +kRV2]2q}lixHkE{U)mY#+6]{AH=yN~S9@IFiOa@X6?GM|8MBp/ Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:lIdrlyYssoom7PB7OyXt1Uezcd8= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22160 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22160 Richard Stallman writes: > Why do you think the traditional Emacs bindings are harder to learn > than these bindings? The are two possibilities: 1. Emacs is not the first computer program the user learns. In that case, chances is that the user already know and expects the CUA bindings. 2. Emacs *is* the first computer program the user learns. In that case, learning the next computer program will be harder, because the next computer program will use CUA bindings. ... In that last decade, a (rough and partial) consensus on key bindings has been building. A user can switch between MacOS, MS Windows, Gnome, and KDE applications, and still expect a certain level of consistency between the bindings. I believe it would be in the best long time interest of our community, if Emacs joined that consensus. In practice, the CUA bindings (not the CUA code) should be default, and the documentation should reflect that. A very visible and complete "traditional" mode would be needed though, at least as good as CUA mode, just doing the opposite. ... In my day job, I write a text based scientific application. I use Emacs to edit the setup files and run the application myself, of course. But when I teach people to use the application, I cannot in good conscience teach them to use it with Emacs. The course is "nitrogen dynamics in soil", not "Emacs 101". Instead I pick a lesser editor, one they haven't used before, but which they can pickup in no time because it stays within the consensus UI.