From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Per Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Customize interface: The use of "boxed" buttons Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:12:41 +0200 Organization: The Church of Emacs Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1086444798 20729 80.91.224.253 (5 Jun 2004 14:13:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:13:18 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 05 16:13:11 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BWbv5-0005dT-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:13:11 +0200 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BWbv5-0004q7-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:13:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BWbvW-0000L1-H3 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:13:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BWbvP-0000Ku-Ep for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:13:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BWbvN-0000Kh-QD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:13:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BWbvN-0000Ke-Mw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:13:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [80.91.224.249] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BWbue-0007YS-36 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:12:44 -0400 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BWbud-0005LM-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:12:43 +0200 Original-Received: from sheridan.dina.kvl.dk ([130.225.40.227]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:12:43 +0200 Original-Received: from abraham by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:12:43 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sheridan.dina.kvl.dk X-Face: +kRV2]2q}lixHkE{U)mY#+6]{AH=yN~S9@IFiOa@X6?GM|8MBp/ Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:5MTJRzaSqeS6y6A1XT0wlstufqs= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:24575 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:24575 In Emacs 21, Customize buffers started using the "boxed" face for buttons, instead of [bracked] bold text. Unfortunately, there are some problems with the implementation: 1) The change was implemented in Customize, not in the Widget, meaning buttons are inconsistent even among applications 2) Indentation was never updated, so instead of [ins] [del] Foo Bar we get ins del Foo Bar 3) The use of "raised" and "pressed" display does not seem to correspond to any standardised look and feel I know of. 4) There seem to be some redisplay problems associated with the buttons, that make complex types (especially faces) hard to use over a remote line. 5) Since Customize uses buttons a lot, the display becomes very cluttered. All of these problems, except maybe the last, are fixable, and all represents problems that should be fixed. However, nobody have seem to be worked on that since Emacs 21 was released. My suggestion is therefore that we "go back" to use a textual representation for buttons (and other stuff) in Customize. I think that would represent a large increase in usability.