From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Per Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Getting more info on a variable in Customize buffers Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:06:21 +0100 Organization: The Church of Emacs Message-ID: References: <003e01c4f371$34df4d00$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1105002577 12415 80.91.229.6 (6 Jan 2005 09:09:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:09:37 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 06 10:09:27 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CmTe3-0000gq-00 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:09:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CmTpL-0000mH-9w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 04:21:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CmToa-0000kn-Jf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 04:20:21 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CmToY-0000jv-BK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 04:20:18 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CmToX-0000jQ-Dc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 04:20:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [80.91.229.2] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CmTbA-00052o-AT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 04:06:28 -0500 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CmTb8-0004MV-00 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:06:26 +0100 Original-Received: from sheridan.dina.kvl.dk ([130.225.40.227]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:06:26 +0100 Original-Received: from abraham by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:06:26 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 30 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sheridan.dina.kvl.dk X-Face: +kRV2]2q}lixHkE{U)mY#+6]{AH=yN~S9@IFiOa@X6?GM|8MBp/ Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:affsOKlc/yLE9aersBKbbp2JA8I= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31947 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31947 "Lennart Borgman" writes: > Therefore I believe every piece of > information we get about how different persons react to this interface is > important. Unfortunately, expert users are much more likely to provide feedback then casual users. Therefore, free software user interfaces tend to be "expert friendly", rather then "beginner friendly". An in particular, cram way to much information and functionality into the UI, scaring off beginners and casual users. Which is fine in general, expert friendly software is very important. But Emacs has always been expert friendly. Expert users already have an excellent interface for customizing Emacs, namely Lisp. Customize was supposed to add an *additional* interface in order to make customization easier for casual users. Drew Adams feedback seems to build on the mistaken belief that Customize is the preferred way to customize Emacs. Which is far from the truth. (I'd really like to know which "Emacs priest" who gave him that belief, so I could explain that they are spreading false gospel). I do not believe there are any "preferred way" to customize Emacs. There are a number of different mechanisms (Lisp, X resources, the customize group interface, the customize browse interface, the customize menu interface, The Options menu, edit-options, set-variable, and customize-set-variable). None of these are obsolete. Well, maybe "edit-options" is. They are useful in different situations, to different users. And they mostly play along together.